Liston's cornerman on the KO loss to Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Like most others I've always had a hard time taking Ali's KO of Liston in the first round of their second fight at face value. But here's what Liston's cornerman Milton Bailey says about it in Hauser's biography on Ali:

    "But I guess what it came down to both times was, Ali had a style that Sonny couldn't cope with. That's all. The moving and the running, and he hit pretty hard too. After they fought the second time, in the dressing room Sonny asked me for smelling salts. Don't let no one tell you that Ali couldn't punch."

    Thoughts on this?
     
  2. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Ali cpuld punch, stopped Oscar Bonavena, and you could literally see some of his punches were hard, the straight ones were like ramrods at times, they say speed is power
     
  3. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    Ali didn't seem to think he hit Liston hard enough.
    Ali's instant reaction was beckoning him to get up, shouting, Ali looked angry and disgusted that Liston had gone down. That's says it all.

    Liston's rolling about on the canvas was hammy acting, like a spoof production of Hamlet or whatever. The melodramatic "death scene" :lol:
     
  4. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    There's nothing in that punch. Liston probably did say to Bailey that it was real. It would have been hard to turn around to your corner, after all the preparation they'd done getitng you ready, and tell them you'd taken a dive.
     
  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    The cornermen prolly feared the blowtorch as well.
     
  6. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    The Bonavena stoppage is a good one. But on the whole Ali's power wasn't so great. Floyd Patterson told Jose Torres that Ali was really feather-fisted. Cooper always claimed he couldn't punch either.
     
  7. yancey

    yancey Active Member Full Member

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    Jimmy Cannon, noted sportswriter, saw the "knockout" punch at Lewiston.

    His take?

    "It couldn't have crushed a grape."

    Did you see Sonny start to get up, and when he realized that Walcott had not counted him out, he collapsed again on the canvas?

    It has been said that Sonny was scared for his life. Malcolm X had been gunned downed by a faction of the Muslims just a few months prior to Lewiston and it is said that there were threats on Sonny's life. Maybe what had happened to Malcolm was weighing on Sonny's mind.

    Lewiston was a farce.
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Nice post.
     
  9. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    It almost certainly was a farce. This is one of those scenarios where one camp will say: "so and so said it was real", the other will retort with "but he claims it was a dive". The proof comes in the film of the fight. Anyone watching it, hand on heart, doesn't think there's anything in that punch at all.
     
  10. yancey

    yancey Active Member Full Member

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    p.s. Some hack writer in one of the Boxing Mags later wrote an article explaining that the punch was some kind of advanced karate chop with a torquing action that made it devastating.

    The hack was serious. :rofl

    Wish I had kept that magazine.
     
  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    The corkscrew or anchor punch :lol:
     
  12. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Yes, which he learnt off an old black actor, who was in Charlie Chan films, called Stepin Fetchit apparently. According to Ali that is.
     
  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    :lol: i've got the mag here too somewhere. Talk about some **** lmao. Where they saying it pre fight, or did it come put post fight to try take away some of the heat?

    :lol:
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Actually pre fight from memory.
     
  15. ianb

    ianb UK Fight Fan Full Member

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    I think Ali frustrated Liston so much he simply broke his spirit. Sonny had a hard life and sad death. Ali could punch though no doubt. Speed and excellent technique = power. Look at Bruce Lee he was tiny but they say he could punch a man twice his size across a room!