Losses you really just don't take into count at all?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rakesh, Mar 17, 2022.


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  1. Titan1

    Titan1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Greg Page and Michael Dokes, post-1985.
     
    Titan1, Mar 18, 2022
    Titan1, Mar 18, 2022
    #31
  2. Rakesh

    Rakesh Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Hmm, my personal opinion is that Holmes was still wayyy too rusty to be in there with one of the greatest H2H monsters of all time.

    Rounds in 2 years when Holmes fought Tyson: 0

    Rounds in 2 years when Holmes fought Mercer: 26

    I still credit the win regardless, I mean it still is Larry Holmes, but I probably credit it way lesser then you do.
     
    Rakesh, Mar 18, 2022
    Rakesh, Mar 18, 2022
    #32
    RulesMakeItInteresting likes this.
  3. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Layoffs dont matter so much for veterans. See Vitali against Peter, Floyd against Marquez, Pac against Mattyhsse or the third fight with Bradley. The list goes on.

    And it was actually 15 rounds bc Spinks--Holmes II was less than two years earlier.
     
    NoNeck, Mar 18, 2022
    NoNeck, Mar 18, 2022
    #33
  4. Rakesh

    Rakesh Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I agree but the fact is Holmes was 38 years old whos style largely depended on qualities only young men could have.

    Everyone ages differently, some people peak at 35 while others peak at 20, some age better from 35-40 then someone who does 30-35.

    You also must take account Holmes used sneakiness on the ropes and pure IQ to merk Mercer to a decision, he didn't bounce for 12 rounds using in and out movement. It was Mercer, not a prime Tyson.
     
    Rakesh, Mar 18, 2022
    Rakesh, Mar 18, 2022
    #34
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  5. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Holmes had good qualities that aged well. He fought the wrong guy in 88.
     
    NoNeck, Mar 18, 2022
    NoNeck, Mar 18, 2022
    #35
  6. KidDynamite

    KidDynamite Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Muhammad Ali losing to Holmes
     
    KidDynamite, Mar 18, 2022
    KidDynamite, Mar 18, 2022
    #36
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Any losses that occur after a fighter has noticeably declined. Any losses that occurred whilst being a teenager. Any losses outside of the best division. Any NWS losses.

    Only partially count losses that have been avenged.

    Only partially count losses that involve contentious decisions.
     
    lufcrazy, Mar 19, 2022
    lufcrazy, Mar 19, 2022
    #37
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  8. BoxingFanOfIranianDescent

    BoxingFanOfIranianDescent Tony Galento was an African American boxer. banned Full Member

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    Lots of good ones are mentioned here
    Dempsey vs Tunney - aging plus 3 year layoff, recent death of his brother, footage shows he had slowed down dramatically
    Louis vs Ezzard/Marciano -age
    Moore vs Marciano/Patterson/Ali - age
    Any loss Foreman had in his comeback, obvious age, and inactivity
    Schmelling VS Louis - Schmelling was over the hill, a prime version would be way more competitive and probably lost via UD
    Bob Fitzsimmons VS Jack Johnson - Age
    Jeffries VS Johnson - Age
    Johnson VS Willard - Age
    Tyson VS Lewis - Age
    Patterson VS Ali - Age, Injury
    Mixed on Tysons losses against Holyfield, clear he wasn't at his best and was inactive for a period before, I feel a prime version would have been a different fight, but alas it has to count somewhat
     
    BoxingFanOfIranianDescent, Mar 25, 2022
    BoxingFanOfIranianDescent, Mar 25, 2022
    #38
  9. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No Neck is simply not a fan of Holmes. Period. But hey, to each his own.
     
    RulesMakeItInteresting, Mar 25, 2022
    RulesMakeItInteresting, Mar 25, 2022
    #39
    George Crowcroft and Rakesh like this.
  10. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 MONZON VS HAGLER 2025 banned Full Member

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    Foremans loss to Young ;)
     
    Journeyman92, Mar 25, 2022
    Journeyman92, Mar 25, 2022
    #40
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  11. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I’ve seen people argue endlessly on this forum that:

    Tyson losing to Douglas doesn’t count (he wasn’t chaste enough before the fight, doesn’t count)

    Sonny Liston’s two losses to Ali don’t count (in between his second fight with Floyd and his next fight with Ali, he aged 25 years)

    Duran quitting against Leonard doesn’t count (it’s not Roberto’s fault that he had no discipline so shouldn’t count against him that he didn’t train as diligently this time, plus he taunted him the same way Duran taunted Leonard late in their first fight, which we all know isn’t fair)

    Tyson (who never actually lost a fight) vs. Holyfield I and II

    Let’s see some people fess up to these. C’mon.

    At least @NoNeck defends his position about Holmes vs. Tyson (although I don’t agree)
     
    Saintpat, Mar 25, 2022
    Saintpat, Mar 25, 2022
    #41
    RulesMakeItInteresting likes this.
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