Listen MAD TAKAMURA, Armstrong was a three division champ (Not titlist) simultaneously. Pac is NOT the LW champ, he is a mere titlist. He is the SFW champ, but not for long, he has left that division and will never go back. And plus, Armstrong's three divisions are the equivalent of 6 in todays terms. Feckless Halfwit.
Armstrong won the lineal title(as there was only one champion in those days) in 3 original weight classes(not half classes like the ones today that you're considering for Pac), those being Featherweight, Lightweight, and Welterweight. Not to mention he defended his WW title 19 times(all time record) and would've won another title at Middleweight if not for the ridiculous draw he was given in his fight with Garcia. Is that enough said or will this clown actually continue with this nonsense?
And Armstrong also fought the middleweight champion to a disputed draw, I believe while he held the other three titles. Even more amazing!
Hmm I believe that Leonard was the Lt heavyweight champion of the world and that the last time I checked was 175. Well Ray was only 165 but that is 25 pounds above his starting weight and he beat the 175 champion which is 35 pounds higher then his start weight. Pac is hardly breaking ground in boxing. Problem is 95% of the pacnatics are only fans of pac and have no idea about the history of boxing. Look at Archie Moore whos first fight was at 142 pounds and his last fight was at 206 64 fuking pounds later and he still won by knockout. For a more recent fighter Dingaan Thobela started his career as a featherweight 127 I believe and won a supermiddleweight belt 168 that is 41 pounds. So when Pac moves up 41 pounds which would be welterweight and knocks out a champ give me a call. I could make this post three pages long with example after example of fighters that have moved up alot of weight and beat average fighters and even belt holders.:hi:
isn't it a feat to be flyweight, (super)bantamweight, featherweight, and lightweight champ in your career, even though at an era of multiple sanctioning bodies? to mad-takamura, i guess roach would only want pac to fight hatton at 140 and no one else at that weight class.
Who did Archie Moore beat that was over 200lb and was remotely good? We're not talking about Pac moving up to WW and beating a guy with 20-10 record. Im pretty sure alot of FW's could beat up on alot of crap MW's out there. Were talking about Pac moving up and beating the best JWW out there. Different times too. Back then fighters undefeated records werent as quite important, fighters would jump in weight more often too. Im pretty sure PBF could have jumped straight from 135, take on Zab at 147 and beat him, or even beat a Baldomir level fighter at 154 from 135. Thats just not how the fight game works anymore, fighters are very selective on how they plan their fights, weights and maintaining an undefeated record. Back then you loose this week you win next week. Now you get crucified if you loose 1 fight. Another thing, when bring up this subject, the only fighters you guys can throw in as achieving the things Pac has are guys like Archie Moore, RJJ, SRL, Armstrong....yet when Pac is even mentioned in the same breath as them you tear your hair out? lol. Inconsistency or what.
Once again, Pacquiao started at 106 pounds because he was a teenager, and didn't accomplish anything until later in his run at Flyweight when he made his name by beating Sasakul(in a fight he was getting easily beaten in prior to Sasakul getting careless, but noone ever mentions that part). It's not as if Pacquiao is a natural 106 pounder or something like that, and the way you guys make it out, he was Monzon at each weight class. Not the case in reality, not even close.
True, but he still won a title, lineal title at that at 112. I agree, he wasnt that dominant at each weight except perhaps 122 & 126 where few are above him and IMO he would have given them all a run for his money. Problem with Pac is, he was a developing fighter constantly so its hard to spot when his prime is. At the lower weights he had beastly power & speed but little boxing skill, at the higher weights his skills have greatly improved but isnt quite as fast or devastating in power. Guys like JMM had the best trainer by their side since they were kids, Pac didnt have one until he was a champ I believe.
No I recall the name Dingaan Thobela, but fit to form for Pacnatics, you just see what you want to see. As I stated I could name tons od fighters that did those things, but 1)I wanted to use guys that people know 2)I know that someone would try that he didnt beat anyone...As if Diaz was a great fighter. Pacnatic are the worst people on this broad. Im not talking about Pac fans Im talking about Guys that think that Pac is the only fighter in the world and thinks that he would beat every fighter in the world upto ant including Heavyweights.
Im not using Diaz as that benchmark for Pac. Im using hatton as the benchmark for beating a rated fighter in a much higher starting division. To my knowledge, there arent many fighters who has beaten an elite fighter 35lb north of their starting weight and if they did, they were great fighters and IMO should Pac beat Hatton, he is deserving of being mentioned along with them. As far as im aware, the highest anyone in esb think Pac could go up to is WW and possibly beat ODLH, that was Pacdbest. Not the horde of pac fanatics you claim to have seen saying he would be beating up on HW contenders.
I agree, pac wasn't anything special at flyweight. but i don't agree about your description of the sasakul fight. yes he was thoroughly outboxed but pac wasn't out of the game either, he was game till the end, i don't even remember sasakul hurting him. and the fight finish wasn't due to a lucky punch. before the 8th round of that fight where the KO happened, pac was already getting into sasakul and hurting him in several occassions. sasakul was even wincing and pain and was sporting a face like he would cry when pac would connect against him. at the 8th round, pac was already timing sasakul and hurt him several times, he trapped him in the corner and sasakul knew it was his end, his face looks like it even before the left connected sending him down.
Just remember that 2 years ago i was labeled delusional for saying Pac will be fighting Hatton and PBF. Everybody jumps on me. Even Pac fans said I'm Crazy. But now look everywhere... talks is all there for Pac vs whos who of boxing. I maybe not realistic 2 years ago but now it's not far from reality. I saw that special thing that most of the guys here refused to appreciate about Pac. There's no question, Pac is the Armstrong of this Generation. Being labeled #1 P4P today solidifies that.
Did I miss something, cuz I dont recall Pac beatting hatton. So who has Pac beat at 140 that is elite??? In fact what REAL 135 pound fighter has he beat??? What Pac is doing is moving up and fighting guys that are moving up as well. Not the smae as fighting guys that are of that weight. Diaz is the first time in a long time that pac actaully fought a guy of that weight. If you move up from 106 to win a belt at 126 vs a fighter that is moving up from 112 is it as impressive as beatting a guy that is actally a 126 pound fighter.
this type of fans exists only in your imagination. search the esb and you wouldn't find a single poster who says **** like this. this is an invention, attributed to pacfans by posters who thinks insulting a pacfan's knowledge would make them look intelligent.