Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Not an all time great heavyweight though.

 

How many KO's did Big Cat Williams have against a top contender that impressed you so much- In fact let me take you quote- How many contenders did Big Cat KO with one punch in the professional ring? Kind words for a fallen man are nice but there are NO facts in a professional ring that prove it.
Many fans want to oversell Liston's chin - I personally respect Listons offense for a small man at today's standards 6"ft 1/2 inch but he quit and was KO'd against Ali 2x- was it his heart-his chin? that failed him.
Williams had the best built in boxing up until Vlad Klitschko but with a record of 31-1 was KO'd by 5'10 178 lb Bob Satterfield (who was KO'd by Ezzard Charles in 2- Archie Moore- Rex Layne- among others) So are you saying Williams chin failed him before his power showed up? Don't tell me he was 21 yrs old, he had 32 pro fights- Mike Tyson won a title at 21 with 26 fights.

Please don't try and prove HEARSAY when the facts don't work for you in the fact department

 

This again. Firstly, no one's going to tell you he was 21, because he was 20. Secondly, the "33-1" against his name on boxrec doesn't mean he was a veteran. Williams had no amateur career at all. He turned pro at 18 and learned his trade knocking out novices and clubfighters for money. There's no comparison with a fighter like Tyson who had been intensively coached since childhood. Thirdly, he went in against Satterfield as a late substitute with only 2 days to prepare which is, obviously, not enough.

 

How many would you rate above him? How many are ATG? I have him around 18-20 mark.
I don’t consider him an ATG either but I would say he was a great fighter. I’d prob only give about 9 HW fighters that ATG mark.

 

Stop trying to twist the facts- Williams was 6 days short of his 22 birthday not 20 like you state and remember Big Cat had 34 fights at the time with a record of 33-1......Mike Tyson was actually 21 when he won the title and had 26 fights

your hero Big Cat was KO'd for several minutes by a 5'10 178 lb man Bob Satterfield at least Rex Layne got up off the floor to stop the Light Heavyweight...by the way your other hero Nino Valdes was dropped for a 9-count in the 10th rd. by the same Bob Satterfield (the light heavyweight) and lost a UD - Your boy Nino also lost to 5'10 175 lb Harold Johnson

Layne was 34-1-2 when he faced Marciano and had KO'd the only man to beat him Dave Whitlock (who was 27-3 at the time he beat Layne and had just beat 37-4 Nick Barone -Layne was 17-0)

Beside beating Walcott and Brion and Satterfield Layne also beat Turkey Thompson (who stopped Lee Q Murray a year earlier) Layne was 34-1-2 - Marciano was 35-0 -Great fight of young contenders and remember Nat Fleischer called Layne the next Dempsey- Cant have it both ways Mac - use the same measuring stick you use with your heros as those you are trying to besmirch

 

My Buddy was in gym and saw Lou Savarese KO Shannon Briggs cold and Briggs was a durable guy.....I was in the 28th street gym and saw 5'8 160 lb Tom"the Bomb" Bethea beat the dog crap out of 6'5 280 lb Leroy Jones who fought Holmes ...As far as Williams he was built, heavily muscled for those days and now but Williams never proved power in the ring vs top contenders- Kind words for a fallen fighter and Im sure he could punch but it never showed up in the result section in the pro ring as special.

 

Well, this entire forum is mostly based on subjective things. I remember when a lot of prominent posters thought David Price was going to be the next great heavyweight lol. popular opinion on subjective things does not matter.

They don’t make them big enough to handle Marciano’s punches. All time great power in either hand at volume into the fifteenth round, being big just gives him more target to hit.

 

What exactly does Cleveland Williams have to do with this thread?

 

Savarese and Briggs ,& Bethea & Jones have absolutely nothing to do with Williams power, and Williams himself has nothing to do with this thread! WTF is wrong with you?

 

And he proved your premise when?

 

If you don't fight top contenders because you received a 357 magnum bullet in your stomach whilst just entering your prime,Id say it isnt your fault and the jury is out on that.
How many contenders did Mac Foster ko? Forget about the absurd criteria of one punch that you attached to your post.
How many contenders did Shavers ko?
how many did Ron Lyle ko?

Now we will adress your "one punch." absurdity.
How many contenders did the following big punching champions ko with one punch?
Dempsey
Louis
Baer
Schmeling
Jeffries
Liston
Foreman
Tyson
You're rather a nonsense on Marciano aren't you.

 

For the last time, don't give me your latter day revisionism. Listen to what the scribes and observers were saying in his day. I can dig these up all day long...

"For Walcott is strictly a second rater, a journeyman boxer working at a trade."
R.G. Lynch, Milwaukee Journal 6/22/48

"Walcott is no rip-snorting specimen. He's moderately talented, but extremely cautious- a 34 year-old journeyman who finds himself squarely in the championship picture strictly due to the mediocrity of his competition." Evening Star (DC) 7/30/48

"(Walcott) has come to be recognized as a fair journeyman operator after 17 years of ring warfare."
6/23/48 Cleverland Plain Dealer

"The heavyweights are such a poor lot that a journeyman fighter (Walcott) who once quit the ring but came back to fight regularly, can make the No 7 heavyweight look like a novice amateur scrapper." - Chauncey Durden 3/5/50

"Walcott is a competent journeyman pugilist who learned his trade who learned his trade the hard way... but he is an incredibly old man as prize fighters go and he was never more than a good club fighter when he was young." - Gordon Cobbled*ck, Plain Dealer, OH 9/10/52

 

How long was Jersey ranked? What ranking? How many former champs would you call journey men? Is Ruiz a journey man? Douglas? Baer?I would more refer to him as a solid contender before becoming champ. Archie Moore despite his losses and never being a HW champ would never be referred to as a journeyman. To me it sounds insulting for someone of that caliber. Also to be fair of those articles only one was written after he became champ. The rest are all prior sooo kind of misleading

 

Take up your case with the people who wrote on the subject for a living at the time he was active. I find their arguments perfectly compelling. He toiled at his peak potential for some time and when the talent in the division receded he was left as high ground. Sorry this doesn't jive with your narrative.

 

If Walcott was a journeyman, who capitalized on the weakness of the division, then the mate 30s/early 40s, must have been the strongest era in the division in history!