Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Yes they would have. Floyd demolished Charlie Powell, a Big Cat clone. And because Ingo snuffed out Machen in one round why wouldn’t he entertain the guy who could only draw with Machen? Trouble is, Williams was never in the radar until Sonny was a champion. And what happened then? He drew with Machen and lost to Terrell. So no amount of swooning toward Williams has ever made much sense.

Liston was never rated above Johansson before the start of his series with Floyd. And you know this. Floyd was kept away from lower rated fighters?

Machen was not avoided. Patterson fought the guy who crushed Eddie.

precisely, both Floyd and Machen were in a similar place when they met. Film shows that it was a competitive bout with the result being a fair reflection of would have transpired for the title.

pull the other one. Nobody believes you are not anti Marciano.

There is nothing spin doctoring about Willian’s Not being a great fighter. He wasn’t. There is nothing spin doctoring about Don Cokkell being picked by Boxing News to beat Rocky. They did. Nothing spin doctoring about Rex beating Satterfeild and Walcott. He did.

Again, there is something odd going on when somebody says Rex Layne has no wins whilst at the same time showing to be overcome with admiration for the record of Cleveland Big Cat Williams.

 

Anybody on this forum suggested Williams was a great fighter? Can you show us the post this appears in?
Yet another example of dishonest spinning of a subject!
What several ,including myself ,have said is that he was a great puncher and we have the endorsements of
Liston
Foreman
Louis
Terrell
Machen
To support that .
Against it what do you have ? Your opinion and the opinion of Bummy Davis who state you cannot be a big puncher unless you ko ranked contenders? An opinion which if agreed with excludes the following from being classed as big punchers.
Lyle
Foster
Gomez
Morrison
Ruddock
Shavers
Its a mystery how you two," the gruesome twosome," do not recognize the absurdity of your position!

 

No they wouldn't, it's a matter of public record that D'Amato avoided both Machen and Folley as challengers when Patterson was champion.
You in your usual dishonest way said this
"Even A past prime Patterson beat Eddie Machen" You deliberately did not mention that Patterson was 3 years younger than Machen or that Machen was having mental health problems.Dishonest and disingenuous and you wonder why you are regularly called this? This thread is not about comparing Rex Layne to Cleveland Williams its a thread about Marcianowhom Williams never fought!
Mentioning Layne makes sense since he was an opponent of Marciano's mention Williams does not and is just a blatant attempt to muddy the waters by two Rockista fan boys who are being badly outclassed in this particular debate!
I asked on here what are Layne's best wins?The names Dave Whitlock and Andy Walker came back.The fact they have to be mentioned tells any objective observer all he needs to know about the depth of Layne's resume which comprises
1. An excellent win over Walcott.
2.A debateable win over Brion.
3.A robbery over Charles. Charles fought him 8 months later,and floored him 3 times in a one sided beat down in which the scores were as follows.
59-51. 59-61, 60 1/2 - 491/2
4.A win over Satterfield.Unranked at the time.

 

I could name 30 off the top of my head . Exactly what relevance would that have to a thread about Marciano and his opponents?

 

I think people are just confused as to why maybe you and others might praise someone like Williams (who imo was a damn good fighter just not that special) but you absolutely DESTROY and put down other solid contenders and champs like Layne Moore Charles Lastarza Matthews Cockell (obviously some are better then others)? Williams I put slightly above Layne in the grand scheme but I don’t think there is much difference as far as quality goes. What people may wonder is why micro analyze Layne and Lastarza but not hold Williams (or anyone else really) to thag standard? Why not just accept some people were ok contenders and good wins? Why must these fighters be ridiculed when others aren’t? I’ve never seen Tucker, Rahman, Young, Bonavena, or whomever held to the standards that a Marciano opponent is held too. That’s why I think Williams gets mentioned because people know you appreciate the fighter he was. That’s just my take on it . Can’t speak for everyone.

 

I posted this story several times - also look at the picture and see the height difference - so if you can't read you hopefully can see the picture or have someone read it to you - several minutes the story says and a 25lb difference in weight but the picture shows the height difference the 6"2 -? Big Cat had over Bob Satterfield who KO'd Big Cat for several minutes LOL

https://www.boxingoverbroadway.com/...eavyweight-the-tragedy-of-cleveland-williams/

https://www.boxingoverbroadway.com/...eavyweight-the-tragedy-of-cleveland-williams/


The win against Agramonte did earn him a chance to fight in New York where he took on Sylvester Jones who was in only his tenth fight. This was a four round preliminary bout and Cleveland was dropped twice on his way to losing a decision. The fight was on the undercard of the Marciano/LaStarza Heavyweight Title fight.

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Satterfield Knocking Out Williams
Williams returned to Florida and ran off five more wins including a knock out over Jones. He was now matched against Bob Satterfield in Miami Beach. Williams was a late substitute for Satterfield’s original opponent. Even though he had a 25 pound weight advantage, Williams was knocked cold by Satterfield in the third round and it took several minutes to revive him.

 

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Layne doesn’t look like a club fighter here. When in shape he was a dangerous opponent. Unfortunately consistency in training hurt his legacy and career.

 

Contemporary reports give it as either "a full minute" or "almost a full minute". An internet article written 65 years later doesn't change that.

 

I've never destroyed or put down either Moore or Charles.Both are alltime great light heavies and all time great P4P fighters.Neither were great heavyweights imo.
Lastarza was imo, a protected figter who avoided nearly all the top guys of his generation.
Mathews too was manouvered skillfully into a title shot his bubble burst and subsequently spiralled downwards.
Cokkell imo had no business being in the ring with Marciano and again. imo he was never a world class heavyweight.I believe his record bears this out. That's not ridiculing them it being honest and objective.

 

Bummy never had a quote saying it was ten minutes, if he had he would know where to find it. and have promptly posted it , that was just imaginative writing at best.More realistic ,less kind posters, might call it something else!

 

I can read just fine thanks. Fine enough not to confuse ,"nearly a minute" with," ten minutes!"lol
And also fine enough to understand and comprehend this passage from the link you posted.

"A resident of Houston, Williams had a reputation as a very hard puncher. "
Do you really think a photo of two boxers neither of whom is stationary or standing upright ,a photo shot from below in the press section ringside gives an accurate indication of a mans height?
Because if you do I'd like to introduce you to Rasta Guhly a complete buffoon who haunts this Forum, I just know you would quickly become soul mates!
Now look at two fighters standing upright and stationary ,tell me what you think the height differential would be judging by the photo.

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Now do the same with the photo below who looks taller?

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If we go by your absurd photo Satterfield must be a foot taller than Layne both pictured here!LOL

Bob Satterfield
Born: November 9, 1923, Chicago, Illinois (St. Louis, MO?)
Died: June 1, 1977
Height: 6’ 2”
Weight: 167 ¾-189 ¾
Reach:
Stance: Orthodox
Managed by Jack Kearns; Ike Bernstein

TB 79
50-25-4 (35 KO)

 

Precisely. Far too much swooning.

 

He was clearly in a very bad way. Anything more than ten seconds is extremely worrying. People don’t talk about it because it is forgotten once the guy is ok but I have witnessed some bad knockouts live from ringside and being “out” for anything more than thirty seconds or so is overkill. It is a very long time not to know if the guy is not going to recover.

 

so the ring magazine was wrong to rate Cokkell #2? Commissioner Christonberry was wrong to state that there was nothing between Nino and Don at that time before they fought each other? And without knowing the future ahead of it happening, Boxing news had no business picking Cokkell to beat Rocky because mcvey decides years later that he was never a world class fighter? Cus told Tyson that Don fought Rocky the right way. And today the first 4 rounds present this fact.

well that is your opinion many many years after the event with full knowledge of what went down. Going into it this was not the case. Don was simply an underdog. A rated one.

 

Calling under a minute 10 minutes is "overkill," wouldn't you say>Or perhaps not!!