Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janwalshs, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think a man who is the annual number one contender for two consecutive years deserves a title shot!
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think a man who is the annual number one contender for two consecutive years deserves a title shot.None of Marciano's other challengers achieved it!
    On a side note Valdes had beaten the man who had beaten Moore 3 times out of 3. Valdes beat 3 top ten ranked contenders in the space of 11 months.Why should he be obliged to enter further eliminations to receive a title shot? From 51 until 55 when he got his title shot with Marciano Moore beat 3 currently ranked heavyweight contenders.
    Valdes,Dunlap ,& Henry 3 in4 years , Valdes beat 3 in11 months!
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Valdes was losing fights when he beat Charles. The win rightfully put Valdes in the ratings for the first time but it just looked a like a fluke, especially when nino refused a rematch and Charles set about beating guys with wins over Valdes. Charles then rightly went ahead of Valdes in the ratings when he beat Satterfield and Wallace. So Charles, not Valdes, was number one at the time of Ezzards first challenge to Rocky. Nothing unfair about that. Of course Nino makes the annual number one since the Jackson win raised him back up but he had to wait out the rematch with Charles who was seen as a much more serious threat than Nino especially after the exciting first fight. Nino should have went next but because of the Tax situation and availability of open air stadiums the champion couldn’t fight until the summer. Of course by then, after more stale performances Nino was no more attractive a challenger than Don Cokkell. And Both Cokkell And Nino had less right to a shot than Archie Moore. Once Don was selected over Nino the fairest thing was for Nino to go next but Archie, with his previous win over Valdes, was clearly a stronger threat altogether, yet still Nino was given a lifeline, an eliminator with Archie. If anything Moore was the one who had been messed about, Archie had to beat a guy he already had beat then drop back down to defend his lightheavyweight title before he could challenge Marciano!
     
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  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Unlike Big Cat Williams, At least Jaco has a signature knockout win.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Valdes beat another 2 ranked fighters inside the coming10 months.Who else did that in Marciano's reign? Why did Valdes have to beat Charles again to make it stick? It wasn't close ,nobody thought Charles deserved the verdict?
    You are pulling excuses out of the air,"tax situation", " availability of open air venues".Valdes was the number one annual contender for two years no other Marciano contenders can say that!
     
  6. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    You've pitched this idea before, but the only person Charles fought in this period who had a win over Valdes was Harold Johnson, who beat him.
     
  7. barberboy2

    barberboy2 Member Full Member

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    I agree Nino should of got his shot plain and simple! Well in a ideal world anyway.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I have never agreed with the narrative that Valdez got cheated out of a title shot.

    Ezzard Charles was ranked #1 by Ring Magazine both times that Marciano fought him, as was Archie Moore.

    It is true that Valdez was more deserving of a shot than Don Cockell, but that still leaves you a fairly narrow window, and there were other reasons why the fight did not happen.

    It is perfectly possible that the stars simply didn't align for this one.

    There is also evidence that Marciano was planning to fight Valdez as his last fight, and decided to retire at 48-0 after Moore beat him, only to be goaded into one last fight by Moore.
     
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  9. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    As far as Moore He beat Baker ) (who beat Valdes) and Valdes 2 times over the time period so then rightfully so they rated Moore # 1 in the ring magazine 1955 as a heavyweight and Nino to # 6 and rightfully Archie got the title shot as # 1 contender - Nino went on in 1955 to lose to the 5'10 177 lb Satterfield as I mentioned getting dropped in the 10th and losing a UD -
     
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  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Everybody that Marciano defended his title against was the current Ring Magazine #1, except for Cockell who was #2.

    This is as close to a perfect title reign as it gets!
     
  11. lloydturnip

    lloydturnip Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Brilliant post .Thank you Sir
     
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  12. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Janitor knows the ratings far better than I, I have my old boxing magazines and ring record books away in the attic but Janitor has been very reliable over the last decade plus that I have been posting on ESB - we lost a few great ones -passed on over the years but Janitor has always been a solid source
     
  13. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Interesting bring up Moore because I am starting to feel he is a bit underrated as a Marciano opponent .. if you watch his fight right before Rocky against Olsen Moore looked exceptional .. fast as hell, astonishing moves, as beautiful and graceful as any fighter I've ever seen .. my point is that of course Olsen wasn't Marciano but Moore was still an absolutely terrific fighter ..
     
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This doesn't change the fact that Valdes was the end of year number 1 in53 and 54and that in that space of time he beat 3 top ten rated contenders.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Vingo weighed 189lbs
    Olson was a middleweight and never a great one.