Its not a matter of deserve its a matter of a contractual obligation llke Liston had with Patterson ,only Liston honoured it.
You said compared to Liston Marciano was fast tracked and its BS! Marciano fought Liston fought Lastarza 25th fight . Williams in his 25th fight . Schkor unranked 29th fight. Williams in his 29th fight. Beshore 36th fight. Patterson for the title in his 36th fight. Louis in his37th fight Patterson title defence in his 37th fight.
Well that's difficult to say. Sonny Liston beat an olympic heavyweight champion in the amateurs. Marciano had an 8-4 amateur record with losses to a few nobodies. Marciano signed a contract with Al Weill before his 2nd pro fight but Weill barely even noticed his existence. Marciano was sent back to providence without Charlie Goldman to train and fight on his own. After Marciano's 2nd win, Providence Journal noted Rocky was regarded as a good prospect managed by Al Weill. "But Neither Weill nor Goldman had seen rocky fight an actual match." "The fact irritated boston promoter sam silverman, who worked closely on providence fight cards. He intensely disliked Weill." "Silverman tried to do a favor for a friend in Boston who was grooming rising young fighter named Bobby Quinn. Quinn had 15 victories in sixteen fights, 14 by knockout. Silverman matched him against Rocky, figuring to help advance Quinn and stick it to Weill." "Quinn rushed in for the kill, and walked directly into a powerful right that Rocky launched from his knees and connected. The crowd was stunned, then electrified. Silverman was furious." "Silverman sought to correct things a few weeks later. He brought in an unbeaten young heavyweight from Montreal named Eddie Ross. Ross was the man to take down this oafish fighter from brockton." "The fight lasted just one minute, when Rocky caught Ross with a murderous right high to his head that sliced open his skull and put him out cold before he hit the canvas." Providence Journal reported "he is unquestionably one of the hardest hitters to show here in many a year. His punching power really has awed local audiences." "What the sportswriters didn't realize was that Weill had barely noticed. Nobody from New York had come up to see Marciano fight. Marciano was living off his friends savings from the army and his own 40 dollar purses. Marciano was training on his own." "After the Ross fight, Providence promoter Manny Almeida told the press Rocky was the hardest puncher he had ever seen, including Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey. Almeida then called Weill and told him he might have another Dempsey on his hands and had better get someone up to providence before another manager stole him away." "Weill immediately sent Charley Goldman to providence for Marciano's next fight On August 30th 1948." 'After Marciano's knocked over large, powerfully built black heavyweight Jimmy Meeks, Goldman told Rocky that Weill wanted him to come to New York to Train." All from Marciano's new book
Compared to Liston ,Marciano took it slow, just see who they fought on their respective numbered fights Liston was fighting 18-1-2 Summerlin in his 6th fight Marciano 8-8-1 Keene Simmons Liston had 10 amateur fights Marciano 19. I bought the book 2 years ago.
After Weill realized he had something in Marciano, no doubt he brought him along slowly. However I do believe, Marciano could have lost any of those early fights had he not landed his famous punch. Liston was scheduled to fight Harold Johnson in 1956, which is very early in his career. No doubt Liston was fed early to very good fighters, but I think Liston was far more developed as a fighter already, while Goldman needed years to work with Marciano and improve him to the great champion he would later become
As you know from the earlier Skehan book, Sam Silverman said ,"Rocky could look just as bad against a trial horse as a champion",but he had that equalizer.
I believe Weill was most cautious with Marciano after the Louis victory. Weill had taken risks vs Layne and Louis, and Marciano scored famous knockouts in both of those fights. Marciano was now # 2 contender. They were ready to take on Charles for the title in 1951. But Charles lost shockingly. Walcott agreed to a return match with # 1 Charles but stated he would sit on his title for the rest of the year. So from late 1951 until he fought Walcott for the title, Weill fed Marciano a complete washed up body like Lee Savold to keep Marciano "in the ring" without a risk. # 3 ranked Clarence Henry had knocked out # 4 Bob Baker in spectacular fashion in madison square garden in november 51 then destroyed top 10 satterfield in 1 round two months later. Henry wanted Marciano and Henry's manager offered Marciano $ 40,000 to fight Henry for the # 2 ranked contender status. Weill said no, and signed to fight Lee Savold instead. Smart business move, but it's a fight that I think should have been made. Instead west coast hype job Harry Kid Matthews (who Weill and Goldman knew was no risk to beat Marciano) weaseled his way into a title eliminator. Clarence Henry should have gotten a fight against Marciano instead of Savold or Matthews Once Marciano became champion Weill ducked nobody. He would have gladly fought Valdes for the right money and in the right place.
From Harry Grayson, "Matthews Not Sure He's Seen Marciano, But Others Have," Muncie Evening Press, July 25, 1952: "It was Marciano who finally knocked all the fight out of Louis but the Old Brown Bomber rates the antiquated Walcott and Clarence Henry ahead of the Italiano, who hung him over the ring apron to dry, and Matthews. Joe Louis considers Henry the best prospect around, has no doubt but that he would take Marciano. "Rocky will improve a lot as he gains more experience but right now he has several weaknesses," he says.
I dread to think what Marciano's reaction would have been had they suggested he give a contender a miss ? I don' t think Weill wanted Valdes, I also think Marciano would have stopped him.Time for bed it's just gone midnight here.
Weill wanted Valdes. I have newspaper articles dating back to late 53 about Weill discussing fighting Valdes. Weill really wanted a 1955 date in Miami where Valdes would draw a heavy Latino crowd. Cockell should have never been chosen first before Valdes in 55, but it didn’t mean Al Weill was afraid of Valdes. Does anyone think Weill wouldn't have fought Valdes provided he defeated Moore in the eliminator? Of course he would have. Keep in mind Rocky and management wanted to see if his nose would hold up after the second Charles fight. It was a concern at the time if he would come back from that bizarre injury. Sure Valdes size & power would have made for a unique match up for Rocky, but he should have beaten 38 year old Archie Moore and kept his ranking. He let old man Moore batter him in the last 3 rounds to lose the fight. How much did Valdes really want Marciano?
Hate to pop the Rocky fans bubble but I’ve studied the progress in heavyweight division very thoroughly. Let me just say I’m Italian America and idolize Rocky But we have to see reality. Marciano would be at great disadvantage against Liston. Sonny was a key figure in the progress of boxing and sports in general as post WW ll when segregation ended and the black population was added more completely to the sports talent pool. Sonny was a new breed: big and powerful but quick and well coordinated also. People try to change reality when they say things like they were close in size or say their competition was similar. Marciano was probably 5 10 Liston 2 1/2 inches taller. In the 2 most important fights of Marciano's career he weighed 184 1/2. Liston was 218 for first Ali fight 215 for 2nd. And that ain’t 30 pounds of blubber. Reach Liston 84 Marciano 68. Then also Marciano could be cut Liston much less so. Liston was a boxer puncher with very sound fundamentals. Contrary to popular belief because of the Ali fights Liston was very tough and fought very hard even when hurt or injured. When thinking of this think Foreman Frazier 1. In short it would be a massacre at least as bad. Liston was better and the styles were such that Rocky was made to order for him. Sorry.
Marciano could be favored over all except Muhammad Ali. Williams would be a stylistic foil on paper, but how it would play out in reality, I see Rocky eventually stopping him. Yes, Williams was 6'3 215 pounds and a mighty hard puncher, but he didn't exactly just destroy ASAP every guy put in front of him like you would think he would, especially with him being a HW giant by the standard of the day. Marciano could have fought Valdez, but Valdez lost to Archie Moore.
I think Rocky has a good chance of beating all of them, but I can see him taking a lot longer to do and having a greater struggle with some of them
Perhaps theses fights should of taken place, but from Weil's POV, he pretty much got Marciano in the running for a title shot vs the Walcott/Charles winner, why risk that he would feed him the likes of Matthews while he waits around for a deal to be made to get the title fight on. It's not really a duck per say, but more of keeping Marciano safe until he is in the ring with the champ.