Marciano vs Frazier: Who had the better chin?

I think Frazier chin was good but his recovery was great thats what enabled him to get back up so many times against Foreman. Marciano had a slightly better chin although he never fought anyone like Foreman.

 

It is NOT a reasonable or an educated inference at all. Your example clearly indicates it. People that shoot well at the free throw and then go to shoot well at three point lines - are usually just good shooters in general so it isn't a fitting analogy. Nevertheless, some parts do work: your shooting at half court is nearly irrelevant to your shooting within a reasonable range - I'm sure when you see someone try a half court shot they have a very different position and "technique" ; it is something totally different and hardly related to normal shooting. Just like that, a Herculanean punch is something totally different to moderate power punches - it is like the half court shot (in exaggeration to illustrate my point).

That is not a very good example. I saw the finish - it is comical. It had less to do with Bonavena's chin and more with other things like not having the conditioning (for facing Ali at least) and getting plain tired (we discussed this kind of tainting before). More so - 14 rounds of punishment - that is EXCELLENT ability to take a steady beating (maybe not as good as Marciano - but if Bonavena can take very hard shots better than you must look at it overall).

I'm not stating that Frazier has a better chin. I'm saying that I would put money on him to have a better chin (based on conventional wisdom) because I know what is UNDER THE TRUNK OF that car - I have seen that he takes hard shots and gets back up if needbe. I can't say the same for Marciano so I'll take the MORE PROVEN product.

I'm not ignoring - it is just a ONE WAY street. If a fighter takes a single hard shot well - it means he can take a sustained beating so long as his other factors are tuned in. If a fighter takes a sustained beating - it is not an EDUCATED CONCLUSION to say he takes a very hard shot too as we've seen many cases of that discontinuity. A lot of people probably believe that it is a reasonable or educated inference - it most definitely is not - people are ignoring too many examples in history that show it is a one way street.

At the end of the day, Joe Frazier was more proven.

 

Marciano took shots from Walcott, and Moore and they were hard punchers, sure not George Foreman level. But does getting stop by Foreman relly PROVE Fraizer's chin?? I belive Marciano would have goting stop the same way. Up and down. But that does not mean Marciano or Fraizer had less than a chin. As MM said, Fraizer was hurt vs lower tier or middle tier punchings. Marciano took them and strug them off and keep comeing. Only Walcott hurt Marciano in round 11, even the knockdown did not hurt Marciano. Moore caught the Rock on 1 foot. But Fraizer was indeed hurt vs Bonavena and Ali in the 2nd fight. As well as Ramos hurting Fraizer with a uppercut. And other accouts. Outside of Foreman, I dont think Fraizer took on a puncher like Walcott or Moore imo.

 

The fact is That Rocky never faced the kind of punishment that Joe had to endure. Joe took hundreds of sharp fast hard shots from Ali who was underrated as a puncher and kept getting up after being bombed by a giant clubber like Foreman, two modern sized athletes. Rocky never faced anything like that in his career. He was decked by Moore who weighed 180 and was hurt as well. Rocky was also given a standing 8 count which was not in the conditions set before the fight. Moore might have finished him if the ref did'nt do this. Marciano fought in an era where fighters were generally under 200lbs and nowhere as fast as the modern fighters of Joe's era. Most of the punches in Rocky's era were thrown with a one-and-a-two rythym. Ali threw lightning fast combos that came 4 and 5 at a time, and hurt. How would Rocky deal with that kind of barrage? And if Foreman could easily shove a 212 Frazier halfway across the ring before throwing his bombs, I think he would easily do the same to a 184lb Marciano. Could Rocky keep getting up after receiving those kind of power shots which came very fast from a brute like Foreman? Maybe he could survive the barrages from Ali and Foreman but the fact is we'll never know so I don't think we can truthfully say who had the better chin unless they both faced the same opponents. Both men were very tough no question about that but Rocky was decked by a light HW in Moore and a cruiserweight in Walcott. It would be interesting to see how he would've handled the shots of bigger modern sized HWs like Ali and Foreman but unfortunately we'll never know.

 

Yes, he was badly hurt, if he wouldn´t be white, the referee surely would have stopped the fight, but Moore wasn´t the only opponent of Marciano who was robbed... :thumbsup

 

Wallace didnt knock out the Rock. Wallace won on points in that Atm fight. Marciano didnt get knockout in the pros or the Atms.

 

Ali wasn't that big, and I really don't see him winning against Marciano.... Ali gets his head knocked off in the 11th! :good

 

Marciano and Frazier both had great chins... very nearly equal I would say.

 

I'd probably say around equal, but seeing as Marciano is wining this poll easily, I voted for Frazier.

It's hard to say really. I think there is a lot of fighters who would have looked to have an awesome chin against Marciano's opposition, despite them being knocked down in their own careers, such as Holmes, Dempsey, prime Louis, Holyfield, Tyson. I just can't see those, or many other ATG's, suffering knockdowns against the poor competition Marciano faced, unless it is a freak shot.

On the other hand, Frazier had a tough career against hard htiting guys, and you can only say he was hurt before and after his prime. Considering the physical shape he was in post-Ali I, it's no wonder his punch resistance fell. If you think about how drastically the difference in his style was against Bonavena, it's clear that is wasn't prime Frazier.

You have a guy who was only hurt before and after his prime and one who was very rarely hurt. You have someone who faced elite level punchers, and one who often fought light weak hitters.

It's hard to say because of the circumstances. the two cases are very different, but I think if they both fought the same 50 guys, the results would be similar.

 

Marciano gets up against murderers row a few times if he fought in the 70s, but due to heart and stamina, he would still grind down about anyone and KO them in a 15 rounder.

Ali thought so

 

I like how forum talk “power is the last thing to go” only doesn’t apply to Marciano vs Louis.

 

Marciano stated he blacked out for a few seconds against Moore,let's not minimise the knockdown. Neither Marciano or Frazier fought too many big punchers.

 

Where can we see a primary source for Ali saying that?

 

Four inches taller than Marciano, around 30lbs heavier with a huge reach advantage.

This content is protected

 

Yes, and Rocky said he was fighting in and through a haze for a number of rounds versus Walcott.

Just imo, but due to Rocky’s fierce determination, spirit and consistency, I think some people oversight or underestimate how desperate it was during some points of several of his fights.

Not an aspersion but an accolade - Rocky laid it all out, 110 % in each and every one of his fights - perhaps not a lot of wiggle room when projecting his chances against even tougher and harder punching competition.