Marciano vs Langford

Ok Ive had enough. Sam is a great great fighter with many great great stories, but we have to be realists. this is limited film of langford, and even though he looks good, he also displays flaws on film that many people are excluding and trying to hide behind his fantastic longevity/record. Marciano to me on film, looks better. I dont think there is a 185lb man and below in history of the world(outside of perhaps dempsey 50/50) that can beat rocky marciano. rocky is a freak of nature, guys his own size and below can't possibly beat him. There is absolutley no way sam langford is stronger than rocky marciano, sorry hes jut not. he is also 5 inches shorter and 5-10lb lighter. Going over sams record, these disadvantages dont seem like much, but when your giving them up to rocky marciano...they are!

People keep bringin up sam mcvea this, sam mcvea that. Sorry, but sams not that good, he looks like **** on film. now i do think hes better than film indicates, but hes not the mike tyson some people say he is. I hadvnt heard one person mention walcott or charles in this thread, and both looks far better on film than mcvea does. people rave about mcvea all time hitting machine, but who has he knocked out? i hadvnt heard anyone bring up ezzard charles as a puncher, yet he knocked out better heavyweights than mcvea did. just cause langford took sam mcveas punches, so what? and marciano cant take a Mcvea left hook?. marcianos all around punching abilties, combinations to head and body, his non stop knockout punches for 15 plus rounds, his Suzy Q, and his wide variety of punches make him a very hard candinate to go the distance with. marciano has the power in one punch to put anyones lights out. mcvea was not a better puncher than marciano, and he isnt half the fighter marciano was all around. the only fighter langford fought close to marciano in both accomplishments and all around abilties was 185lb jack johnson. jack johnson destroyed him, knocking him down twice. langford never would have beat johnson on his best day. There was one poster here, maxonomer, not to single him out but he said langford would easily clearly defeat marciano. NO ONE in history would have an easy time with marciano, no one. he would be a nightmare for anyone he ever faces, and no one would ever want to face him again. ESB gives marciano his due in accomplishments, but he continues to be severely underated in h2h matchups. Rocky has a style of his own thats unmatched in history, and he has some incredible tools to go along with that style. Sam is a great fighter who accomplished alot in every weight class. but just because he beats gans at lightweight, doesnt mean he will streamroll through a ATG bigger heavyweight who never ever lost.


I think rocky wins on points in a competitive match because he will be too busy for sam, but sam isnt god here. rocky could very well overpower the little man and flatten him with one punch. I doubt it, but its alot more likely and some of the other opinions thrown around. I can't see how Sam is going to knock out rocky. When have we ever seen rocky badly hurt on film? wen?? so suddenly people are going to make up fantasy's of marciano being down and out, when weve never seen it happen? rocky was impossible to keep down, and damm near impossible to knockout(especially by a smaller man). his chin was made of concrete.

 

"the only fighter langford fought close to marciano in both accomplishments and all around abilties was 185lb jack johnson. jack johnson destroyed him, knocking him down twice. langford never would have beat johnson on his best day."

It always seems kind of pointless to me to debate who would win between two guys who never fought, and never will, but I can't resist replying to the above statement. First, the one and only time Johnson fought Langford, Johnson was 28 year old and Langford was only 20. Langford had not yet finished maturing physically and was reported to weigh anywhere from 140-156 pounds. So Johnson is said to have outweighed him by as much as 40 lbs. It's hard to say whether Langford would have stood a chance to beat him anytime from say 1909-1912, or 1913, when Langford was often the logical # 1 contender. Some folks from that era, including the likes of Joe Jeannette, who fought both men a number of times, say Langford would have beat him, but who knows, the 2nd fight never took place. The version of Langford that Johnson fought in 1906 was a far cry from the version he would have faced anytime from 1909-1913. I don't think Marciano's height advantage over Sam would have mattered at all, Langford obviously knocked out many heavyweights a lot taller than Marciano over the course of his career.

 

now, don't go injecting sanity into this discussion.

and i really don't get the mcvea thing. people seem to like him because he looks frightening in his pictures. well, that don't exactly cut it for me. he looks like shite on film.

 

Hey Suzie you are back with VIM and Vigger...I agree 100%...none of the the fighters Sam fought were a modern machine like Marciano with 2 fisted power...I think Sam was great and I respect the natural strength of his day..there was something special to him but Marciano too strong...even Charles would present a serious problem for him..still I think he can be competitive but may also be overpowered by Marciano..who was a freak as well

 

Marciano for me.

 

Many Marciano fans are the miost blind faith driven in the sport. I like and respect Marciano but feel he is highly overated.

Who are the best punchers this "granite" chinned fighter fought ?

Who are the best fighters? Marciano was a warrior, no question but he was also extremely lucky he fought in the era he did and was smart to get out when he did .

Langford destroyed much bigger, stronger, harder hitting and better fighters than Marciano. No one stood up to Sam's power. From Jack Johnson to Harry Wills to Jim Flynn to Gunboat Smith to George Godfrey to Kid Norfalk, all agreed Langford was the hardest puncher, by far that they had ever faced.

(More to come)

 

People are bringing up McVea because of his power and the fact that Langford stood up to it which is a testament to his chin rather then how good McVea was.

 

Langford took more than McVey's punches ... he took Wills bombs and Wills was a murderous puncher. He took Godfrey's punches. He took Flynn's and Flynn hit hard enough to KO Dempsey. His resume is exceptional and he was at his best against fighters who chose to slug with him ... just a terrible match up for Marciano ...

 

From what I have seen of Langford he looks like a solid guy but tit is hard to judge in an era where there were so many draws and lets just say a 5-6 guy fighting Harry wills 6"2 is impressive and Mcvey and Jennette but when you have a close fight with Stanley Ketchel ( impressive) I remember listening to Nat Fleicher, he loved Langford, Johnson,Fitz, Corbett,Jeffries...here were his ratings 1. Jack Johnson, 2. Jim Jeffries, 3. Bob Fitzsimmons, 4. Jack Dempsey, 5. James J. Corbett, 6. Joe Louis, 7. Sam Langford, 8. Gene Tunney, 9. Max Schmeling, 10. Rocky Marciano.



I could see Max with sentiment for the older era fighters but WATCHING FILMS OF THEM...I have to say either the film was very poor or they were. I think Boxing in the heavyweight division had there strong Champs....Sullivan before gloves...Johnson,Dempsey,Louis,Marciano,Ali.....then there were a lot of co-champs but we would have to say Tyson,Holmes and Lewis were strong....I try to be fair and out it all into perspective but it is not easy if you did not live it....and as far as the old timers in Langfords era few that post here have seen him or lived it.

 

godfrey was a 2 fight novice when he fought langford. I see that your more than willing to bring up the age of marciano's opponents in attempt to downgrade his opposition. It works both ways, godfrey was no more than an embro when he fought sam, and whose to say sam took his punches? it was a quick knockout, I doubt godfrey ever landed on sams chin.

flynn was a joke. have you seen him on film vs johnson? hes a toughman contestant, not a world class boxer.

1. where is this proof he took all these bombs? not to mention wills kicked his ass about ninety percent of the time

2. who did sam mcvea ever knockout? i dont hear you calling ezzard charles a murderous puncher, yet he knocked out much better heavyweights than mcvea did. Mcveas best knockout actually came very early in his career in his 5th pro bout, over denver ed martin.

3. By the time Harry Wills matured into a man, he beat the living daylights out of langford around 10 times.

I think a shorter, smaller fighter who is willing to mix it up with marciano is a dream matchup for rock. Terrible matchup here for langford. langford likes to take his time, he wont be able to take his time vs rocky, and rocky has the ability to end the fight with one punch at any time.

and marciano wasn't? Archie Moore said in the 1980s "there isnt a fighter past present or future who could slug it out with marciano and come out alive". now archie moore picks certain fighters to beat marciano, but he always remained firm no one could ever outslug him.

Sure, but I happen to think marcianos opponents look exceptional on film too.

I could say the same about old time langford fans who believe all the myths and fairy tale stories. Seems more like fantasy to me. with marciano, you can see him and his opponents with your own two eyes, its reality. and he looks great.

its not just the punchers that he fought, but the fact we have never seen rocky marciano badly hurt or near knockout on film. not many champions can say this.

Joe Louis hit marciano with a flush left hook at the end of the first round, and rocky took it like a champ....the same left hook that knocked the durable lee savold out months earlier, and same left hook which toppled nino valdez in an exhibition in 1950...also the same left hook which nearly decapitated billy conn in 1946. Louis was 6'2 214lb, alot of force behind that punch. what did sam mcveas left hook ever do???

Rex Layne hit marciano flush with his knockout right hand numerous times on film which rocky shook off without blinking. And this isnt impressive? why not? if your concerned about age, Layne was only 22 he also had a high knockout percentage at the time. since you like old timers opinions I thought youd like this one. "He is a very hard hitter and has what it takes to be the next heavyweight champion of the world"- Nat Fleischer on Rex Layne in 1950. whos to say mcvea or any of langfords other opponents hit harder than layne?

Here is what the well respected John Garfield had to say on Layne

"Throw out the record book on Layne, he was a rugged brawler with a quick, very heavy right. As he got shopworn and discouraged, more and more, he got outworked and beaten down. But, when he first raged out of Utah -- full of **** and vinegar -- he'd have been a handful for anybody. He could crack with that right."



Jersey Joe Walcott is another name. I would be willing to bet my house that walcott was the more dangerous puncher than sam mcvea or any other langford opponents. On Film, Walcott displays tremendous punching power that cannot be thrown out the window. its there on film with naked eye, for all of us too see. with langford and mcvea, we hear myths stories legends. with walcott, we see results, we see incredible one punch knockouts over ezzard charles that rates top 5 in history, and we also see 3 one punch knockdowns over some guy named joe louis and the first to floor the rock. When Ring Magazine rated Walcott # 63 on there top 100 punchers list of all time, they did it for a reason.



How bout Archie Moore? what so bob fitzimmons and langford had the power to knockout any heavyweight but not moore? what makes them two better punchers than moore? So langford knocked out big men, so did moore. Moore went 22-1 with 19 knockouts above men over 200lb, and this isnt impressive? Are the big boys langford beat that much better than valdez or baker? I dont think so. moore showed he is more than capable of knocking out anybody regardless of size. On a sidenote, moore twice knocked out bert whitehurst. this is signifigant because whitehurst twice lasted the distance with a prime sonny liston!

Have you ever seen langford or fitz produce a knockout like this? in fact i have not seen many 175lbers produce one punch knockouts like this. O this is against a 23 year old(i knew i had to throw his age in there for ya) 6'2 210lb heavyweight, and these big guys in the 50s actually possessed athletiscm, unlike most of the jess willard farmers of the old days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMPXHqGiB28


6'5 220lb Johnny Skhor the big brawler from boston, 6'4 Carmine Vingo who reg gutteridge called one of the hardest hitters hed ever seen. these guys could hit too.


thought it doesnt rank near the top, I would say marciano fought a decent group of punchers but it wasnt the punchers he fought who made his chin legendary...it was the fact we have never seen rocky marciano on rubbery legs or badly hurt on film.

 

Agreed but like Greb you have tons of newspaper coverage and the first hand accounts of eyewitnesses. And of course you have their record .. as far as oldtimers go you either believe pre-1930's were a lower grade or you do not ... the films are limited and of poor quality but they are but one source ...

Newspaper coverage is the proof of the fights. Are you claiming the coverage is all false?

Wills began dominating Langford later in Sam's career when Langford was half blind. Where is your mentioning of the two one punch KO's Langford scored over him?

You call Flynn a joke but he did knock out Jack Dempsey in one round. Was Dempsey a joke or did the fight not happen since no film exists?

Are you making an argument that Rex Layne was a great heavyweight? Is this because film exists?

How can you bet your house that Walcott was a better hitter than McVey when only one fuzzy clip of McVey exists?

Who were the three biggest punchers Marciano fought? According to you Walcott (age 38 , Moore (over forty) and Layne ? Not that impressive.

The best thing Marciano did was retire before he got hurt. He would have been murdered in the 1960's , the 1970's and the 1990's ....

 

Ditto.