do you think that would give rocky an advantage or a disadvantage given that his style was never suited to the amateurs ?? 3 rounds would never have been long enough for his superior stamina to be an advantage, hence he lost a third of amateur bouts, the first one for kicking his opponent in the *****
I think starting at 15 (instead of 20-something), and having a long amateur career would give Rocky, and most other fighters, an advantage.
I don't think it would have helped Marciano, Charley Goldman got to mould him exactly the right way to get the most out of him. That's my take anyway.
Rocky's losing, at least, three times, perhaps more than four, but I think Ali would also have lost at least twice, maybe more as he wasn't a good older fighter in his mid 30's. Lewis lost twice, and pretty much picked the best time for his legacy fights. He also wisely picked who not to re-match. Those who gave him tough fights in Mercer, Bruno, and Klitschko. The talent level in the 1990's combined with Lewis good longevity would make it very hard on any attacking swarming type to do better than Lewis and this includes Dempsey, Tyson or Frazier.
They used to say anyone over 200 pounds can hurt you. It was true, but now we are talking 240+ in shape. As such defense is needed and those with short amateur careers are not going to last long if they are matched vs other top ten fighters. Wilder, Joshua, and Martin do not have a good defense ( Neither does Fury ), and I think they will be sparked when matched vs 2-3 top ten opponents.
Here's the thing. If we're saying Rocky has no access to modern training and I'd limited to 189 pounds, I make him about 50/50 with most of Lewis's defences. From top of my mead the following are about 50/50 with Rocky. Mason, Ruddock, Tucker, Bruno, McCall, Morrison, Briggs, Tua, Holyfield, Tyson, Vitali, Grant. Some I'd favour Rocky, some the other man, but I'm not gonna split hairs here. The chances of him beating all of them consecutively are slim to none imo, weighing 189 with his style it just isn't gonna happen. Let him bulk up and weigh 210, and I reckon he can better Lewis with this run in.
I've been saying the same thing for years. Nothing wrong with the man's legacy.. But leave him out of some of the fantasy fights.
Well bulking up didn't seem to harm Moorer, Holyfield, Haye, Toney and many many others throughout history who've added muscle successfully. I think Rocky at 210 would be a beast, you don't, it doesn't make you ignorant or naive, it means you have a different opinion. I think Rocky has a 50/50 shot at beating Ruddock. You don't, it doesn't make you insulting, it means you have a different opinion. Many men have lost to smaller men and many men have beaten bigger men. Many men have bulked up successfully and many men haven't. All we know for sure is Rocky at that weight was capable of beating a fringe contender who was a SHW, anything else is pure speculation and how you speculate is not a reason for me to think you're naive nor insulting.
Marciano gets underestimated just as extremely as he gets overestimated. Few people here seem to seek the middle ground. He wouldn't be losing to the likes of Snipes and Tubbs, as some would have it. He wouldn't be losing to Tommy Frickin' Morrison either.
I never imagined old Foreman would have lost to him neither. I never imagined Bentt would have beaten him. He had a lot of talent but something was clearly not there. Gun to my head i say it ends like the Mercer fight did.
If he bulks up 20 pounds he becomes more of a sitting target. What elusiveness he possessed was achieved by twisting and ducking from the torso. I don't see extra bulk helping his flexibility or the stamina required to keep that kinda of motion going for 12-15 rounds. Furthermore, if his ideal fighting weight was, in fact, 210, wouldn't Goldman have had him fight there? Frankly, I don't see his frame carrying that weight very well but that's another discussion. Another factor remains. He was a tiny heavyweight, not small, tiny. Do you really think a guy of his size, and his style, is going to stand up to years of damage done by modern superheavies? The abuse that old men and lightheavies were laying on him, plus his go for broke style, forced him to retire after a few short years at the top. I just don't see him lasting long atop a division of superheavies, if in fact he was ever able to climb to its peak in the first place.