Marquez-Pac 4 shows the importance of strength and conditioning

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by dealt_with, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Training harder very rarely results in improved power or speed. That's great but there are plenty of other examples where a fighter has looked rejuvenated after working with a strength and conditioning coach i.e. Hopkins vs Tarver. Also just because a fighter has a new strength coach doesn't mean that it's going to be perfect or it's going to compensate for boxing skills.
    Marquez already had all the boxing skills in the world, he'd never knocked Pac down before. The training he's been doing allowed him to knock Pac down and out. The knockout was more a perfectly timed/placed punch that Pac didn't see but the first knockdown showed the brute force Marquez brought into the ring this time.
    Calzaghe is a guy who could've really benefitted from a good strength and conditioning coach. Great boxer but no explosion, just a tough endurance fighter who slapped a lot. I don't think his chin was anywhere near granite either. Valero we'll never know about because he didn't reach the A grade opponents.
     
  2. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Well yes, he was stronger. He weighed in at 142 vs Pac 3 and Mayweather and 143 for this fight so he wasn't exactly much heavier, he was only 148 in the ring compared to Pac's 150. With strength training you are going to get hypertrophy especially if you are inexperienced with weight training.
     
  3. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    :huh
     
  4. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    When have I ever said that? I've always maintained that boxing skills are the number one thing. Strength and Conditioning is supplementary training. My apologies if you don't understand what supplementary means.
     
  5. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    What did you make of the first knockdown? I've seen Marquez land that same punch on Pac before without the same effect, Pac looked like he got thrown up into the air.
     
  6. igor_otsky

    igor_otsky Undefeated Full Member

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    Pacquiao did that when he went up to fight DLH and went on to wreck havoc in WW. He hired Ariza to build up his strength whilst not compromising his speed and footwork. But that was what? when he was 28-29? A ten-year gap against what Marquez feat did today.

    Anyway, fighters who successfully went up multiple divisions hired S&C to help them develop speed,power,and agility as they move up, whatever age, weight and flaws they had previously.
     
  7. igor_otsky

    igor_otsky Undefeated Full Member

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    Watch the three fights. JMM did that multiple times against Pac but Pac didn't even touched the canvas.. But when did he successfully KTFO Pac? when he bulked up. IMO he had very less body fat coming into the fight that's why he was 143 at weigh in, so his speed wouldnt be compromised through the fight.
     
  8. SpeedKills

    SpeedKills Active Member Full Member

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    Right. An elite athlete like marquez can get deathly strong and shredded without a strenght&conditioning coach, at his most comfortable weight. But when going up in weight, he needed to lift some, to get his body to recruit more fibres. Anyway, although i agree it should be taken more seriously and i have said in the past Strenght&Conditioning coaches are probabley as or if not, more important than trainers i wonder what Tim Bradley's regime is.
     
  9. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So sayeth you, amen. :bart
    :|why they always pickin' on me:|?
    Oh, I almost forgot:hi:
     
  10. KillSomething

    KillSomething Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I never saw that punch land like that...Looked absolutely bone-jarring. Again, Pacquiao was jumping right into it and Marquez slipped to the outside and hit his jaw at a perpendicular angle (while Pacuiao had his chin right out in the open).

    Didn't look like a brute force shot imo. Kind of swung it around the guard (pac didn't think it would land/lost sight of it). Had a lot of force due to the arc, plus Pacquiao was pivoting away and was totally squared up. Just set him on his ass.

    1. Unseen punch
    2. Marquez totally set/Pacquiao totally off balance.
    3. Hard overhand right

    Also, let's not lose sight of the fact that Pacquiao was beating the **** out of Marquez, mainly by activity. I'm sure Marquez hit harder than he had before, but Manny seemed better-conditioned. Marquez wasn't his usual combo-throwing self, seemed to be looking to time those big shots.
     
  11. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You didnt I did, I also said this, IF THE FIGHTER CANT FIGHT, ALL THE MODERN SCIENCE YOU BRING IN, WONT HELP. Take it one step further, Heavy hands and power are natural, so go to any gym find a heavyhanded or natural puncher, then go to a coach and say, I like that guys power can you show me how he does it. Only a total amateur thinks that ko punching can be developed. Now, a coach can increase an individual's punching ability somewhat but if you arent a ko puncher then he cant make you one plain and simple.
    JMM, has 40 ko's, I would think that his power had nothing to do with his conditioning. But here you guys go, "Ya see modern training techniques are way better than old school know nothings, JMM almost killed Pac with his new found power, of course, forget that he has scored many one punch ko's and had 39ko's coming, it was the conditioning that gave JMM that power." Well hate to burst your fragile bubble, David Haye, was born with power, nobody showed him or twitched his muscle fibers with modern science to make him an even harder puncher. Any good coach can tell you that. Now what????
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  12. igor_otsky

    igor_otsky Undefeated Full Member

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    I really hope Paulie Malignaggi hooks up with Memo and get some JMM training too. Paulie might develop the punching power lost inside of him lol.
     
  13. igor_otsky

    igor_otsky Undefeated Full Member

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    look at this flaw: Pac should have moved to juan's left while setting up for a left, to avoid getting countered with the right hand. that's an obvious opportunity for juan to set up and unleash his right hand. at least the punch couldnt have been devastating like that even though marquez slides to his left. juan's cue: a pacquiao jab (which aint a jab but a range****ingfinder)
    same thing he did in the 6th rd of the 4th fight.
     
  14. Bazzel

    Bazzel Guest

    I dont think so, there were more fighters fighting more often and with better skills in th 50/60/70 s than now.
    Fierce competition, competitive regular fights meant the fighters that rose to the top were better than thet are now
     
  15. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Jmm has fought Pac before and not knocked him down. So his other fights are irrelevant, different opponents. Pac is the common denominator regarding Marquez' punching power in this discussion, try to focus you dimwit. David Haye is a good athlete who takes his strength and conditioning very seriously. You think Haye would still be a good puncher at heavyweight without his modern training? He might still be okay but he wouldn't be as powerful, that's for sure.
    Heavy hands aren't natural, you're born with genetic traits then as you progress through childhood you alter your genetic expression depending on what you do. Nothing is 'natural', everything is developed somewhere along the line, motor skills included (which is what is responsible for coordination and punching power). Humans are learning machines, you can change anything at any age. Moronic boxing coaches can't change a fighters punching power because they don't know how to, hence the copout "Oh you're born with it". Kelly Pavlik was a feather fisted amateur who couldn't punch and was more of a boxer, as he grew older he developed into a banger. Explain that one smart guy?
    Now what??? :lol: