Most Flawed ATG's

Carnera..you have a unique ability to sidetrack a person.
What has Liston got to do with your beef with me ?
I'm neutral on Liston for what it's worth and can't fathom why you've post it noted Liston on my forehead ? I am however delighted that you've managed to engage with me in a post without using the hate word..!!
I'm encouraged by that as a Christian man and have hope and optimism for future correspondence.

 

Heavyweights are "heavyweights"....and can be "dumped". Joe Louis hit the deck many times, including once by Two-Ton Tony Galento.

 

Beef with you? I saw you mentioning me before I wrote anything in this thread.
There noting personal here, just a objective dialogue. I´ve just never seen a poster here bashing Foreman like that. https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/george-foreman-overrated.582718/

That´s why I came up with Liston for example, reducing your claims to absurdity applying you "arguments" for him as well. Difference between Foreman and Liston (as well as others):

He got that near 100% KO-streak including champions and top ranked fighters. A pattern you won´t find on more than a hand full of HWs, each of them beeing a KO-artist. It´s not possible to take this away from him in any rational manner.

 

I'm not '''taking away " anything the man did.
I just think he's vastly overrated.
That's it.
Sure he blasted out Frazier and Norton.
Sure he desredes massive credit just for being able to fight at elite level in his mid forties, never mind win.
I just don't think he did much else.
He did nothing as champ in either reign.
He lost to Young and walked away when the division was wide open.
Young was a good fighter but no more, yet GF lost to him with no excuses at his peak.
That was after being hideously outboxed by a ( by the standards of those days) an ageing Ali.
Ali KO'd him and Ali wasn't ko'ing too many top guys by that point.
These are huge holes in GF's peak.
He was later lucky to get the shot at Moorer,Beyond lucky in fact. Most challengers are winning fights not losing them in order to get a title shot.
So whilst he's a huge character in the history of hw boxing , I just feel his resume is thin.
I think that's a fair summary.

 

I´ll get you another summary:

He pured with a near 100% KO-streak through the devision, stopping Chuvalo and Wepner in 3, avenging a UD by KOing durable Peralta as well.
Beating undefeatet Joe Frazier to a pulp in two rounds, bouncing the champion through the ring. Spectators rushing out of their seats, not believing what they are seeing. Foreman looked just unreal on film, the way some thought he would kill somebody with that unhuman power.
Next was Norton. He did just go through Norton in the manner he beat Frazier, with Norton beeing quicker on backfoot. Did not bother what punches came at him, just blasting one of the best fighters out with zero chance. The Frazier win can probably be rated as the best single win in HW history, considering the dominance.

Ali, who came in the best shape since the 60s, beat him like he always beat punchers. Would always beat that Foreman, regardless place and temperature. Ali did just have too good stamina and was too durable, his movement was very good too, sharp punches. To be honest I can´t tell if I´d pick Tyson, Lewis, Louis or anybody else above that matured, experienced, dedicated Ali in teriffic shape. --> Its okay to lose against a giant like that.

If think he was not the same after that loss and the layoff.

You are correct that his resume is a little thin, and I would rate him relatively low for that. This has less to do with rating him H2H in his peak. You can not take away from him beeing a teriffic puncher with a whiskers. Which HW had a similar KO% dominance (most early) beside Tyson?
In fact, he´s next to Tyson the only KO-artist achieving that manner. You might add Wilder. All three of them beeing terrific punchers. Either you have that pattern, or you don´t. Tyson and Foreman showed more durability though.

 

Ali had poor defense against left hooks and no body attack.

 

Naseem Hamed is not an atg.

 

Brutal, self-effacing honesty from our resident Mensa member. Keep the honesty coming friend. That's twice you've told us you found yourself boring. Self discovery. KUDOS

 

You're right Clinton, he certainly isn't.

 

Got that right my man!!!

 

I

I think we're nearer agreement.
His reputation starts with the demolition of Frazier . Some as you, say it's one of history's best wins. Some see it as beating a guy who hadn't been training properly and wasn't nearly the fighter of the FOTC.

 

no he isn't. Would you guys say Barry McGuigan is? I remember Naseem saying he would knock Barry spark out. I thought it was rather disrespectful.

 

Hagler in someways. When he was not aggressive he could give away rounds.

 

No. I don't believe McGuigan is an atg either. Having written that, I wouldn't pay any mind to what comes out of Hamed's mouth.

 

I didn't either. It was a clip I saw once, which was totally disrespectful of Barry. Just the way Hamed did it. Barry was considered on his way to greatness, but Cruz seemed to stop that. I have no doubt Azumah would have stopped Barry.

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That is the link. I suppose I might pick Hamed to beat Barry.