Really? Joe and Holman's careers started at similar times. I agree amazing resume. The scary thing is, the wins I listed for Williams were limited to those contested at MW, so excluded his wins in fights contested at WW.
All the biggies are probably done. I harped on the other day that i firmly believe Mustafa Hamsho is underrated nowadays. It's hugely likely he was the second best middleweight on the planet for some time. I think if Hagler didn't come along he may have had a nice middling type of reign. He had the reputation of having the best chin in boxing before it finally gave out, was as tough as anyone and an absolute dirty bully in there. He was also good enough to have Marvin Hagler struggling to spot hi lefty overhand lefts. He left a hugely hyped Bobby Czyz black and blue all over and as a sizeable underdog smothered and wrestled Wilfred Benitez to what some people scored a shutout. Excepting Hagler the man went undefeated for almost 12 years and that loss was at 175 after campaigning at middleweight his whole career. He also beat a young Scypion, Minter and Parker x 2. From memory he found it hard to get fights with other contenders at times.
Len Johnson, Jack Casey, Jock McAvoy, Bert Gilroy, Michael Watson and two Welters cum Middles, Ernie Roderick & Robert Villemain, the best of Britain & Europe.
Good one. Thing is I saw the Minter fight and though close I thought he lost that fight. Had man though. Speaking of welter cum middle how about Emile Griffith? Did he beat Tiger, a great middle, and Carter, a feared one? Maybe not Carter.
As somebody who had Syrian great grandparents who immigrated to the States from Al-Mishtaya through Ellis Island in 1907, Hamsho resonated very strongly with me and my father's family. (We'd get plastered on Arak and soda while viewing his bouts. Czyz explicitly cited Mustafa's vastly superior physical strength as the key to knocking Bobby from the undefeated ranks. (The two hardest punches each landed was in a direct exchange.) Joe'johngarfield" Rein cited Czyz as Exhibit A for anybody questioning Hamsho's punching power. He was the only one to ever decision Alan Minter. In this southpaw showdown, the physically powerful Minter couldn't use his strength, or stop Hamsho's repeated left hand leads, the key punches in that match. Among the champions Hamsho beat were ATG Benitez (via shutout in a bout where Wilfred went down around four times), multiple titleholder Czyz, and of course undisputed MW Minter. (At that time, the MW Title was the only undisputed championship in boxing, from the time Monzon decisioned Valdez in June 1976 until the WBA formally stripped MMH in March 1987 for taking on SRL in April instead of the WBA's top ranked Herol Graham. As for Graham, he was decisioned in May 1987 by Kalambay for the European MW title.) Vito versus Mustafa might've been a great deal of fun.
It's on youtube Ted, I think. Very good fight actually. Harris was very skilled and lightning quick. A shame he bottled it vs Corro in Argentina in his title shot, it was a very winnable fight for him.
Talking about Minter and Hamsho, I think Minter had become a bit cautious and gunshy by that point to protect his scar tissue and reduce the risk of getting cut. I think if he'd been more aggressive in that fight and lucky enough at the same time not to get cut up by Hamshos roughhousing, it would've been very winnable for him rather than the either way type affair it was. Hamsho was indeed nails though like John said.
Freddie Steele is capable of being on top ten middle lists and underrated fighters of all time, and they're both right.
I thought it closer than the cards with Hamsho winning narrowly. I've seen some in here edge it to minter from memory. A close one. It's still quite a good level that Hamsho is fighting to no matter how you score it i guess?
Yes Hamsho was known for his strength. I'm actually disappointed i haven't mentioned him in recent threads about strength actually. He was a bit of a bull in there and would have been a tough fight for near anyone.
Great shout on Hamsho. I think a few of the MWs who competed in the shadow of Hagler's reign get a tad underrated but, in having reviewed a few of his fights recently, Hamsho definitely had that little extra, in my opinion. I particularly enjoyed re-watching Hamsho/Parker II.
Yeah Joe learned a lot in the gym from Williams. That era for fighting was incredible. No shame in ranking up losses back then when you were constantly fighting against top talent.