Muhammad Ali at his best vs. Wladimir Klitschko at his best, who wins?

you also seem confused, one post you acknoeledge his speed, the next you say its a myth and not there.


are you actually two people replying under the same log in name?

 

But...Ali did well against taller fighters who tried to stand off and worked off the jab (Terrell being the prime example of that). Yeah, Wlad's taller and better than Terrell or Bugner, but he still uses the same stylistic template and that's one that presented Ali with less difficulty than the pressure fighter template used by the likes of Frazier, Spinks, Chuvalo, et al.

But, Wlad has done better against speedier, elusive fighters (even though they didn't fight in the same manner as Ali), so style advantage is probably a wash. I don't think either guy's style is poison for the other in this match-up, really.

 

Are you seriously ******ed or something? Any one with semi working eyes can concede that Tyson had much better hand speed, and combinations that Ali.

Roy Jones starting his career at MW is irrelevant. The man picked up a strap, and that's all that counts. He was faster than Ali. Stop making excuses.

 

actually its your sanity I am questioning. you seem to reply with conflicting opinions.

so lighter weight classes are not faster in your book?

keep it up.

 

My facts cannot be deemed as opinions. They are just that. FACTS!

Tyson had better hand speed than Ali, better head, and body movement than Ali, FACT.

That's why you chose to purposefully omit my stances on Tyson in your post.

 

I omit it because I wrote ali was the faster boxer.

you went off in a different direction. FACT.

 

Double check, chief- I never said Ali's speed was a myth and I acknowledge he's plenty fast. I'm saying that people are overrating the advantage that gives him against a fighter who fights very,very well against speedy fighters. As Drew said, I think this is stylistic wash between the two.

 

I bet if we ran a survey amongst the members of ther board on who had better hand speed between Ali, or Tyson, most logical fans would say Tyson takes this one by a mile.

 

yeah and I bet if we ran a survey about the original post, ali is a faster boxer, we know what the result would be. Ali shits on wlad for fleet of foot, handspeed and movement.

don't dodge the point. this aint an ali vs Tyson thread.

 

JuggernautBoxer,

How would that help him against a guy who was darting in and out of range, and feinting etc?

What's the colour of his skin got to do with anything? Don't be silly.

For his size, Wlad does have good hand speed. But the key would have been footwork. You haven't mentioned anything with regards to footwork in any of your posts. Ali's footwork was unique, and it's what sets him apart from other fast fighters like Tyson and Haye etc. Those two were fast guys, and Mike had underrated footwork in my opinion. He was great at switching stance when he was up close. But Ali had faster feet. He feinted, darted in and out of range, and circled with his jab etc, making guys miss and then timing them. Speed covers a variety of things, not just hand speed. Although Haye and Tyson were very quick, Haye doesn't/didn't have Tyson or Ali's shot variation. He's never thrown quick fire combinations of 4 or more punches and neither has Wlad. He hardly throws any combinations, and he hasn't got a good inside game. So overall, I would say that Ali was a lot faster.

Go and look at some old footage, it's there for anyone to observe. Go and analyse Wlad's arsenal of punches. He hasn't got many. He hardly ever throws combinations. He favours his 1-2, and that wouldn't be enough against a moving 215 pound target.

Not in my opinion. I'm failing to see how Wlad could have coped with Ali's footwork.

 

Haye as a whole, was not faster than Ali.


How the hell does he have superior speed?


Power, yes.


Speed, how?


There's hardly any similarities between how Ali and Haye fought.


Again, define athletic?


Haye has got tremendous 1-2 punch hand speed.

But he's never thrown blazing 5 punch + combos like Ali did in the mid 60's.

So he's got the speed, but not the variation.


Again, his footwork is/was nowhere near as fast as Ali's.


His reflexes weren't as sharp, and his defence wasn't as good.


The similarities are, that they were the same weight, the same height, and had fast hands.

But stylistically, they're nothing alike. Haye has more power, but Ali was a much better fighter, with superior footwork.

As a whole, Ali was a lot faster.


Now go and watch the Wlad - Haye fight.

You can say that Wlad feared Haye's power and that he wouldn't have shown the same respect to Ali, but you can't get away from the fact, that Haye's movement frustrated Wlad. Even when Haye was up against the ropes, Wlad couldn't land clean.

Now you can talk of how athletic Haye is/was, but Ali was more mobile. He moved faster and more frequently.

Go and watch some footage.

David tries to do his impersonation of Roy, while Ali was on his toes, circling and feinting etc.


You're only looking at their hand speed.

But if you factor in shot variation and footwork, then you'll see that as a whole, Ali was much quicker, and would have brought something completely different to the table.


If Wlad had trouble with Haye's movement, then he'd have had a nightmare with Ali's.

 

Ali was one of the very fastest heavies, but would he be fast enough to hit Wladimir and evade getting hit? No.
He isn't out-muscling Klitschko either, nor he would be winning the fight from the outside. This has been discussed countless times and it usually ends with people insulting each other.

 

He's fast enough to beat Wlad to the punch though, and good enough to time Wlad's jab with right. I don't think it's certain that either fighter automatically wins at a certain distance. This ain't a match-up where absolute statements apply.

 

Likewise, would Wlad have been fast enough to hit a moving target like Ali?

I don't think so.

 

poll rsults pretty much sum it up anyway.