Muhammad Ali v. James Jeffries (15 rounds)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Sonny's jab, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Ali let Chuvalo take shots to his belly ,and he took the body attack of Foreman when he was 32 ,Foreman hit a lot harder than Jeffries,there is nothing to suggest Ali would be inconvenienced by Jeffries body attack.
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    4 oz gloves perhaps?

    Incidentaly I highly doubt that Ali purpousfully let either Foreman or Chuvalo hit his body.
     
  3. PATSYS

    PATSYS Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Chuvalo was actually what I had in mind.
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Foreman ran out of steam around round 4-5, and let's not forget those ropes were loose which allowed Ali to lean way back.

    This is s 15 round fight. Jeffries would not run out of steam. I don't think Foreman hit a lot harder than Jeffries who was known as an all time body puncher.

    Ali complained of low blows in some fights that were solid body shots.
     
  5. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    As Chuvalo pointed out, Ali only gave him free shots ONCE in that fight, near the beginning, out of foolish bravado, and not again after that. I'm sure those shots inconvenienced him.

    The Chuvalo fight also showed that a prime Ali liked to go to the ropes, or back into a corner, he didn't dance centre ring all night. Chuvalo had him in the corner and on the ropes in the early rounds.

    What makes you say Foreman hit a lot harder than Jeffries ?
     
  6. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Quicker? Maybe.

    Stronger? How do you know? Because there's one of those famous old time stories that he travelled by foot to Canada, then hunted a dear, went to the Arctic circle to catch some fish, then would all the way back the dear on his back and cop a sweat?

    Or because he outmuscled the tiny guys of his time? Yes, you may bring up now how he beat a few horrible fighters that weighed near 200lbs but couldn't beat the lightheavyweights of that time.

    Jeffries was a pretty averagely skilled boxer. He needed tons of rounds to finally get an exhaustion-related KO because his opposition was so much smaller than him. His style came from a bareknuckle boxing-transition background. He can't beat Ali on points and it's almost a negligible chance that he KO's Ali. Even the best punchers in history, Louis, Marciano, Lewis, Tyson and others stand a very small chance of knocking him out. Foreman, Frazier, Liston and Shavers have already tried and all failed.
     
  7. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    I dont think any boxer was "a lot stronger" than George Chuvalo.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Watch the fights again ,especially the Chuvalo fight ,you can see him talking to George ,and letting him hit his ribs,I dont mean he deliberately let Foreman punish his ribs,but did you see him flinch ,or react to Foreman s piledriving shots to the body? And remember at that time Foreman had been on the cover of the Ring ,described as the greatest puncher of all time,and Ali was a supposedly washed up 32. Four ounce gloves would work both ways ,can you picture Jeffries face after Ali had landed on it repeatedly,we have the descriptions of it after he fought the much lighter ,and older Fitz and Corbett,how do you think he would look after a 6 3 212 fast big man went to work on his countenance?
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    How do I know? Historians say Jeffries was the strongest of champions. That's how we know. Pictures and some film give us the same idea. Jeffries was far stronger than Chavalo. Strength is important vs Ali because he liked to clinch. If Ali clinched Jeffires, he’s asking for trouble.

    What you need vs Ali is some speed to catch up to him. Jeffries was quick with his feet and hands.

    While Jeffries was an average skilled boxer by modern standards, much of this was due to the time line he fought in. If he was trained today he'd be a different fighter. While Fitz did last 11 and 8 rounds as a light heavy, keep in mind the fighters in those days knew they had 20-25 rounds for the night. There just wasn't a sense of urgency to rush things in those days.

    In the days of 15 round fights, the old saying was the fight started after round three. In the days of 20-25 round fights it took even longer than that in some cases to get things going.

    Ali seemed to have trouble with big guys, and some small guys too. Henry Cooper was but 190, and nearly had Ali out.
     
  10. radianttwilight

    radianttwilight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    All this talk about Jeffries dominating Ali physically is very dubious in my eyes. He struggled to physically dominate a supermiddleweight...how is he going to dominate a man who's actually bigger than him (for a change), who, on top of all that, is actually very good at not being physically dominated?
     
  11. albeziel

    albeziel Multi Viral C13 Full Member

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    Ali the greatest
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Apart from Ruhlin ,who quit on his feet ,after his corner threw in the towel ,which fighters did Jeffries ko with a body shot?
    In which fights did Ali complain of legitimate body shots?
    If Jeffries was such a noted body puncher how come he took so long to put away men between 30 and 47 lbs lighter ,who were conceding him 13 years in age,as in Fitzs case ,40 to 27,do you think a 40 year old Fitz ,weighing 172 would go 8 rounds with Foreman?,Do you think any 40 year old man weighing 172 would go 8 rounds with Foreman? I say Foreman is definitely conceded to be a harder puncher than Jeffries and I. DONT KNOW A SINGLE BOXING WRITER WHO DISAGREES WITH THAT STATEMENT.Foreman is considered one of the hardest punchers the Heavy division has seen ,Jeffries isnt.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Sorry Sonny I m eant this post for Mendoza,Jeffries Champion.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Jeffries was considered the strongest of Champions ,compare to LHvs like Fitz ,Choynsky and Corbett,the writers making that evaluation never saw the later heavyweights like Liston and Foreman,or the present day giants,thats like saying Jesse Owens was the fastest runner.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Mcvey,

    The comments of Jeffries being the strongest of champions is a modern quote, circa 1975. Jeffries Ko'd Corbett in the 2nd fight with a body shot. He floored Ruhlin with a body shot that made him quit. He broke a few of Sharkey's ribs with body shots. Fitzsimmons, who fought many fighters, said Jeffries had the best body shot. Fitz said Jeffires body shots felt like they went right though him. As an older fighter vs Johnson, reports of round 10 say Jeffries stunned Johnson with body shots, but was too tired and slow to follow up. I think there is enough to go on to conclude that Jeffires was a very strong fighter, and a good body puncher.

    PS: Ali complained of low blows vs Terell and Chavalo off the top of my head.

    PPS: I can dig up the comments from historians if you wish.