My Round-By-Round Observations & Technical Summary of Ward-Dawson

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Bogotazo, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    :thumbsup His footwork really was key, circling both ways and making it work for him.

    I've seen clues; no blue-print yet, but brief flashes. Like other defensively solid fighters, anytime they get hit or made visibly uncomfortable, it's only even more readily identifiable because of its rarity. Ward circles extremely well and allows those angles to allow him going inside and out as he pleases, but when he goes straight back in a line backing out from the pocket, he seems vulnerable to straight punches; it's how Froch and Dawson tagged solidly the few times they landed in those fights. Ward would rather parry, block and weave in or out of one shot at a time than he would consistently slip punches with side to side movement. I think if someone can blend tall pressure behind straight punches and counter with small back-steps (as opposed to counters set up with the upper body, which are vulnerable to feints and falling into the trap of static positioning), they can push Ward back and encourage him to leap in farther than he should, opening up his sometimes wide/slappy shots. Great timing and/or great speed is necessary here, as is a tight guard.

    Winky Wright and Vernon Forrest come to mind (not that I'd favor them to win necessarily, but their stylistic strengths lend themselves to success IMO.)
     
  2. Ripple633

    Ripple633 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dawson should have stayed with Steward. You saw the switch from Steward to Scully and Dawson looked different. Scully has basically made Dawson fight ineffective, all the signs were there in the Hopkins fight.

    -He's fighting flat footed, not fleet footed which allowed boxers such as Ward and Hopkins to time him and tie him up.
    -He's not using his height and reach to create distance.
    -He's head hunting. When was the last time you ever saw Dawson head hunting?
    -Bad habits such as ducking/down bending from the waist to avoid punches which makes him vulnerable to knocks downs. He was almost knocked down twice against Hopkins for doing that ****. I think he was knocked down in the 3rd round against Ward for ducking/down bending from the waist.
    -His jab is ineffective because he's constantly in his opponents punching range.
    -No lateral movement, which allowed Hopkins and Ward to easily circle him.

    Scully was just not the right trainer for Dawson. Dawson made a mistake to fire Steward after one fight. The problem was he didn't give Steward a chance, and he replaced him with a trainer who has very little experience training Dawson in the pros, and very little experience preparing boxers in championship fights. Which is evident by his strategy against Hopkins and Ward and poor advice in the corner. This is how a boxer can get ruined, they make dumb decisions hiring green trainers and the results are bad. Scully now has the experience, but Dawson can possibly be ruined.
     
  3. Ripple633

    Ripple633 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah Dawson was effective when he utilized his height and reach, of course he couldn't because he was weight-drained. His feet was literally glued to the canvas, training camp was beyond terrible, and Scully had the dumb idea to make Dawson fight on the inside.
     
  4. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Scully and the weight might have been to blame, but I think a large part of it is that fighters who rely on their upper body to set up their counters get stuck in the mud when feinted. It's why Floyd looked much less mobile against Oscar, who feinted coming forward frequently before going for an offensive, or James Toney was neutralized to such an extent against Roy Jones Jr.'s baiting tactics. Dawson has looked better on his feet, but not a whole lot better.
     
  5. kwilson71

    kwilson71 #MAYDAY Full Member

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    Do you see a weakness in Wards game?

    I feel like if he ever has to face someone with speed and a great outside game, who also has the strength to keep him off the inside, Ward could be beat. I thought that guy would be Dirrell.
     
  6. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Me? Well, like I said before:

    Dirrell specifically is an interesting case...I think he might be able to get the better of Ward on the outside, but whoever controls the range would win the fight. It seems Dirrell lacks some level of maturity in terms of his composure when under fire. His defensive fundamentals are there, but his reactions could leave him vulnerable to the same feints Ward has used before when getting inside and circling to create new punching angles, as well as impede his own output. He was looking really impressive against Abraham, very complete, and if he can get back on that track, he'll be a force to reckon with. He has a great shot if Mayweather Sr. can develop his inside game. It takes more than size to deter someone like Ward, you need craft. Leverage and positioning matter more than sheer weight and strength, so I can see Dirrell having success if he can emphasize straight punches and push Ward back while stepping over to control the center, but he can't ever stay there for longer than a shoe-shine flurry or Ward will simply avoid his shots by staying low and make him pay with cleaner blows to the body and head.

    Hopefully Dirrell fights a name opponent soon and gives us something to get excited about again. Always found his style pleasing to watch.
     
  7. Ripple633

    Ripple633 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Keep in mind Chad went into the Ward fight looking terrible against Hopkins. He struggled against a 47 year old boxer and ended up with two cuts in his eyes. Scully is one of the reasons why Chad's skills are declining.

    Another thing to point out, all the incidents that happened against Hopkins were because of Chad's bad habits. The first fight ended because Chad was ducking down/bending from the waist and Hopkins lunged forward and was carried on Chad's back.

    The cut in his eye in the second fight was due to Dawson head hunting. Chad being 6'3 and Hopkins being 6'1, their heads clashed when Dawson was head hunting. These were issues that Scully did not fix going into the Ward fight, I bet you can watch that fight again (Hopkins/Dawson) and see what Dawson was doing wrong; he was not using his height and reach to create distance, he was fighting flat footed with his head leaning forward, he was head hunting, etc. Scully didn't even criticize Chad's performance like any trainer would do. I'm assuming he thought it was a perfect fight or he knew it was bad but didn't want to admit it. Back to the Ward fight, Scully's excuse is that the weight was the main factor, well if the weight was an issue why fight at 168 in the first place? He just didn't want to admit that he did a bad job in preparation for Ward.
     
  8. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    I thought Dawson used his height plenty against Hopkins in the rematch, it's why Hopkins could barely retaliate with anything as he got pressed and his low output made him look his age, and a lot of the difficulty Chad had hitting him flush came from ATG boxing ability reinforcing BHop's defense. My point is I don't think Chad has ever fought too differently, he's shown a bit more movement otherwise but not enough, his style is fundamentally the same throughout IMO. But I understand your critiques.