Hopkins I neglected because he's still active, Monzon was just an oversight, I haven't looked into his career much. Thanks for all the thoughts.
[FONT="]Solid picks at the top. Spots 5-10 is where I disagree the most. I do think Jones, and Mozon belong. I'd take out Grifith and Dempsey for sure. The guys I think are over rated are Ketchel and Lamotta. While both were tough, neither was as fast or skilled as the other fighters on the list. Ketchel is one of those old timers that many historians are super high on. I think he's a tad over rated. Lamotta is a curious fighter. Jake wasn't a KO artist, yet he won a thrilling come from behind KO in round 15 vs a decent Laurent Dauthuille. Dauthullie easily out pointed LaMotta the first time, and had the fight in the bag only to be suddenly knocked out with 13 seconds left to go in the fight! Talk about heart break endings. Jake lost a lot of decisions to fighter not named Sugar Ray Robinson. Most of the top middles did not lose as often vs the same calss of fighters. This is the reason why I don't like him in the top 8.[/FONT]
My spontaneous Top21 MW-list (if I forgot someone say it normal,please): 1: Harry Greb 2: Carlos Monzon 3: Marvin Hagler 4: Sugar Ray Robinson 5: Mickey Walker 6: Tiger Flowers 7: Stanley Ketchel 8: Bob Fitzsimmons 9: Nino Benvenuti 10: Bernhard Hopkins 11: Dick Tiger 12: Emile Griffith 13: Joey Giardello 14: Lou Bogash 15: Jack "Nonpareil" Dempsey 16: Jake LaMotta 17: Jack Dillon 18: Mike Gibbons 19: Charles Burley 20: Teddy Yarosz 21: Gene Fullmer
1.Marvin Hagler 2.Carlos Monzon 3.Harry Greb 4.Ray Robinson 5.Bernard Hopkins 6.Mickey Walker 7.Marcel Cerdan 8.Dick Tiger 9.Roy Jones Jr 10.Emile Griffith
Is it inbreeding which has made you so ****ing stupid? Anyway, I do't consider Hopkins to be top 10 at middleweight. Probably 11-14, but just outsideof the top 10. His resume there is too weak. Sure, you can say "He has X defences and rules for X years", but he beat nobody excellent. Does he have one W on his middleweight resume, who is in the top 50? No. He beat some great fighters, but he didn't beat any great middleweights.
Objectively Hopkins dominated the middleweight division. He defeated all the top ranked middleweights for a ten year period. If you don't think his competition was as good as middleweights from the past that's your opinion, but you have to acknowledge his dominance and the fact he moved up to light heavyweight and defeated the linear champion in that division also.
But, objectively, he became champ largely due to the fact that the best fighter in the division jumped to 168.
Also, i've noticed that some people have seemingly upped Hopkins in their middleweight top 10 following his wins at light-heavyweight. :huh
1. Greb 2. Hagler 3. Monzon 4. Robinson 5. Hopkins 6. Ketchel 7. Cerdan 8. Walker After this, I am not sure how to order it. Fighting for the 9th and 10th places are usually Fitzsimmons, Zale, LaMotta, Tiger, and Flowers. I also go back and forth with Hopkins and Robinson for 4th and 5th place.
The only way they could have proved they were great was by defeating Hopkins. He didn't allow any of them to become great.