Nat Fleisher's Top 10 Heavyweights

Pretty poor list for one that was constructed as late as 1985.. The top two I agree with but you can pretty much have everything from about #3 onward

 

Yes, that would indeed be interesting!

As far as I can recall, the earliest heavyweight list I've come across was that of veteran referee Billy Roche from 1943. He had seen them all from Sullivan to Louis, and his Top-8 looked like this:

1 - Sullivan
2 - Johnson
3 - Fitzsimmons
4 - Corbett
5 - Jeffries
6 - Tunney
7 - Dempsey
8 - Louis

 

From February 1943:

By James J. Johnston
Manager of Boxing Champions
(AP Features)

HOW JOHNSTON RANKS CHAMPS
1. Jack Johnson
2. Jim Corbett
3. Gene Tunney
4. John L. Sullivan
5. Joe Louis
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Jim Jeffries
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Jack Sharkey
10. Tommy Burns
11. Jess Willard
12. Jim Braddock
13. Max Schmeling
14. Primo Carnera
15. Max Baer

 

Collyer's Eye and Baseball World (a Chicago weekly newspaper) in December 1935 ranked the heavyweights as follows:
1. James J. Jeffries
2. Bob Fitzsimmons
3. John L. Sullivan
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Peter Jackson
6. James J. Corbett
7. Jack Johnson
8. Tom Sharkey
9. Gene Tunney
10. Joe Louis

 

He was the Pope and nobody argued with his Holyness. He did´nt like Cassius Clay and Joe Louis, ignoring their talents or seeing something only he could see. He praised Dempsey and rated him above Tunney. When Ingemar Johansson knocked out Patterson he predicted Johannson would last long as the Swede had the power og Dempsey and the skills of Tunney.

 

Joe Humphreys, famous ring announcer, in January 1936 ranked the best fighters of the last 50 years regardless of weight as follows: Terry McGovern, Bob Fitzsimmons, James J. Corbett, Jack Johnson, Jack McAuliffe, George Kid Lavigne, Joe Gans, Tommy Ryan, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney

 

Charley J. Harvey, former secretary of New York state boxing commission and boxing manager, in February 1936 ranked the heavyweights as follows:
1. John L. Sullivan
2. Jim Jeffries
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. Jim Corbett
5. Jack Johnson
6. Gene Tunney
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Tom Sharkey
9. James J. Braddock
10. Joe Louis

 

Harry B. Smith of San Francisco Chronicle had a poll of boxing experts from around the USA in March 1936 that ended as follows:
1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. James J. Jeffries
3. Joe Louis
4. James J. Corbett
5. Gene Tunney
6. Jack Dempsey
7. John L. Sullivan
8. Jack Johnson
9. Peter Jackson
10. Sam Langford

 

In February 1940 a poll of over 25 experts ended with the following results:
1. Jack Dempsey - 208 points, 8 experts placed him #1
2. J. J. Jeffries - 207 points, 10 #1
3. J. J. Corbett - 179 points, 2 #1
4. Bob Fitzsimmons - 177 points, 2 #1
5. Jack Johnson - 169 points, 1 #1
6. Gene Tunney - 161 points, 1 #1
7. J. L. Sullivan - 153 points, 2 #1
8. Joe Louis - 145 points, 1 #1
9. Jess Willard - 37 points
10. Max Schemling - 27 points

 

Joe Louis at #8 huh? LOL, especially amongst that bunch.

 

Dumb Dan Morgan, boxing manager, answered Jimmy Johnston's list in March 1943 with his own list:
1. Jim Jeffries
2. Jim Corbett
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. John L. Sullivan
6. Jack Johnson
7. Joe Louis
8. Jim Braddock
9. Gene Tunney
10. Max Schemling
11. Tommy Burns
12. Jack Sharkey
13. Max Baer
14. Primo Carnera
15. Jess Willard

 

Funny how Corbett, Fitzsimmons and Sullivan used to be ranked so highly and now they have dropped off the list. Are we no longer appreciating their talents, or were the impressions of their peers clouded by emotion, overrating them?

 

The latter.

Plus there was no widespread film on them for a long while. People just listened to the word of those that lived through the era like Fleisher, and god knows what they've been thinking.

 

Some of them lived long enough to have seen the fighters they picked.

For example, from IBHOF bio of Dumb Dan Morgan: "Born July 3, 1873 in New York City, Morgan boxed as an amateur before turning professional in 1894. However, after getting knocked out, he retired from the ring and became a boxing manager."

James J. Johnston, from IBHOF page: "Born: Nov. 28, 1875. Johnston was born in Liverpool, England and came to the United States at the age of 12. He boxed and worked in a Jersey City foundry until the age of 28. He boxed as an amateur and pro bantamweight. "

Joe Humphreys from IBHOF: "Born: Oct. 19, 1872. Humphreys, who was an orphan by age 10, grew up on New York City's lower East Side. By 15 he was a bartender and later became a mascot of the old Nonpareil Athletic Club, which was where he was introduced to boxing. He announced his first fight at 18, when he served as master of ceremonies at a local testimonial."

Charley Harvey was born in 1861 or so.

Harry B. Smith was born in 1876 and started writing sports aroiund 1897.

 

In my opinion, the limitation of rounds and the no-decision era diminished boxing in the eyes of the many historians.

Boxing went from 25 or 20 rounds, to sometimes 15, 12, or 10.

Harry Wills once said he would not box with the equipment the old timers used!

The gloves were light and made of horse hair. They often split ( Creating many nicks or cuts ) or became waterlogged.

There were no mouth pieces. I never saw ice used for swelling.

The old time metal cups actually did more harm than good.

And they often fought in the heat of the outdoors or in stuffy smoke-filled arenas.

Taking a blow pre 1915...not so easy.

Fitzsimmons has the ring record to rank highly. Corbett and Sullivan, not so much.