Nice Mike Casey article on Ezzard Charles

How would Ez have done against Max Baer Bummy ?

 

Most likely in his prime when he fought Rocky, right Bummy ? Or at least as close to it as a blown up light heavy with over 100 fights and tired legs could be for sure ! :hey Then again, Casey is in on the conspiracy too ..

 

Despite starting with a negative, i'm pretty sure this post agrees with everything I said.

 

If you are still saying Bivins was a LHW or met Charles at LHW post World War II, I can't agree.

Bivins fought as HW from the summer of 1943 till the end of his career, never going below 175 again. He was not only a HW, but a top 2-5 HW when Charles got his first three victories against him.

 

Well i'm in majority agreement with you then.

Only one qualifies as a lhw fight to me and that's september 48 (charles last meaningful fight about the limit) it was a couple of years past bivins prime.

In a fight where neither man weighs more than 178 and 1 man is currently the best lhw in the world, it is certainly, imo, a lhw fight.

Had bivins won i'd call him the premiere lhw as that's what was at stake.

For example, if ward and martinez agreed to a 162 pound catchweight and andre pushed sergio's **** in, i'd happily call ward the best mw in the world.

 

I see what your saying but considering Charles had already left LHW for good and Bivins was climbing up the HW rankings with wins over Valentino and Thompson, I would say they were really both trying to make a case for fighitng Louis.

 

I do not disagree with you there. But assuming you consider charles the best lhw in the world going into that fight (as I do) and considering it's at 178. Had jimmy won, would you shy away from calling him the best lhw in the world?

 

Probably not, because Bivins had been rated and known as a HW contender for the past four years. Just because he was a LHW before the war, wouldn't change that.

Taking out the previous year's #1 LHW contender would boost his status as a HW contender though and perhaps forced Joe Louis' hand. Bivins wanted Louis for years. Also worth noting Charles was the #2 HW at this point, having just beat Ray. They wired one final offer of $50,000 to Gus who apparently had better things to do, and Charles turned his back on LHW for good.

 

It was his last meaningful lhw fight, I agree.

Any fight where 1 man is 176 and the other is 178 is as much a lhw fight as you could ask for imo.

 

without a title at stake it is odd that two rated heavyweights did that for a match. maybe it was a clause in the contract in light of how overpowered charles had been in an earlier match? Maybe bivins said if I have to come in under 180 so do you? neither were lightheavyweights at that time.

Totaly random question I know, but do you think sugar ray leonard was ever a Light heavyweight champion? He met donny lalonde for two titles at two weights in one fight without weighing near either division.

 

Yeah maybe bivins knew that charles had his number at hw and hence wanted to beat him at lhw.

Well sugar ray fought for a belt and maybe he brought prestige to the lhw belt but he was never a champion at the weight.

 

Joey Maxim was a heavyweight.

 

I think they all were. maxim, lesnevich, moore, charles, bivins. later patterson and earlier tunny, schmeling and braddock. Only thing was they could or at one time could make 175lb.

 

Ezz was truely an ATG. IMHO I just might put him as a all-time top fiver given his talent weighed against the negatives. Plus, from all I've read, just a kind, gentle great human being. I remember welling up with tears when I saw a commercial on TV with him in a ring and in a wheelchair after he contracted Lou Gerhig's disease.

 

Nah, 176 was normal for Charles at this time. He was still transitioning to HW and coming in just barely over the limit if that.

The weight is low for Bivins, but he would fight his next couple fights below 180 despite going up against a regular 200+ HW in Flynn. My guess Bivins was just trying something different. Maybe trying to regain some speed and stamina in the twilight years of his prime.