No mas!-Explained!

On a related note, I've never understood why people think quitting is disgraceful while being beaten is heroic. I see Duran feeling like he was being mocked publicly and deciding he wanted no part of it. He chose to lose on his terms (of course if he'd trained better none of this might have happened, but that's another issue). He made his choice and had to live with the consequences, but he controlled his own fate. On the other hand, Jess Willard getting nearly getting beaten to death just seems sad and pathetic to me.

 

Bingo!

Another accurate assessment of Duran v Leonard in New Orleans.

 

Obando was the other name.. and I believe he had one other listed at SWW. Fights 3 divisions north of where you're champion isn't just something people did back then. It was something Duran did because he wasn't the best at staying in shape in between fights. The fact is, you acted like having more time off in between fights meant he was likely more in shape than not. I strongly disagree with such an assertion. It points in the opposite direction for me, he was likely much more out of shape and had to lose more weight in a shorter period of time than normal. It's really that simple. I don't blame Leonard, nor do need to put forth a theory where he should've accommodated Duran being in the best shape he could. I don't hold it against him at all. I'm simply saying, facts are facts, and Duran likely had to lose A LOT OF weight in a short period of time. It was his fault, but a fact none the less.

 

So you wouldn't mind if GGG quitting in say round 8 of his fight last Saturday in the middle and saying I don't want this after you paid 80 dollars for the fight?

 

If someone quit in the middle of a fairly close, competitive fight, I'd be pretty unhappy about it.

But in the context of Duran vs. Leonard II, if I'd paid $80 to see it, I'd have been unhappy either way: 1) Duran quitting, or 2) Leonard clowning for 15 rounds. I really think 15 rounds of Leonard 's antics would have annoyed me more actually.

 

In the world where Duran came from ("the street"), you rush Leonard and tackle him or headbutt him if he's humiliating you and you're too physically and mentally overmatched to do anything about it in a fair fight. You quit and go home to fight another day, and you're getting clowned until you vindicate yourself. Kind of like what happened to Duran for quitting in the boxing match.

 

You seem to be describing some caricature of the actual fight, as if Leonard ran around the ring and piled up a landslide lead while refusing to throw any real punches. That's not how it went down. Have you ever actually watched the whole fight? Leonard was clearly up but it was relatively competitive, and he landed some impactful punches.

 

I meant to say "clowning for the rest of the 15 rounds" rather than "clowning for 15 rounds" If it had gone on, there'd probably have been a lot more rounds that looked like round 7 (nonstop clowning), which is what I believe actually caused Duran to quit, not so much anything that happened in round 8. Duran's personality wouldn't allow him to put up with that again, and in round 8 he probably realized that there was nothing that he could do to stop Leonard from doing it, so he just quit. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of how Leonard mocked him in round 7 and I'd probably have just walked out too if I was Duran. Less embarrassing to quit than potentially get mocked for 5 or 6 more rounds.

 

No, I said giving him more time gave him the opportunity to get in shape. If he chose to instead shove cocaine up his nose and food down his gullet, oh well.

I showed you clearly with links that Duran learned less than 3 months (2 and change) the date of the fight and had 3 months to prepare for it.

You’re telling me he gained 50 pounds in 2 months but needs more time to lose it. So MORE TIME is what you say he was asking for, not less. So you’re saying, on the one hand, “he needed the fight to happen closer to the date of the first fight to be in shape” and on the other “he needed more time to get in shape.” Those are OPPOSITE. You can’t have it both ways.

 

Well the fight was announced with enough time to get prepared so no excuse there.....but clearly it was not the same Duran as in fight 1 and not just because of SRL's strategy to get cholo so embarrassed he would quit he was just not as hard looking and fought fairly flat and unmotivated.....my thoughts are Duran put off training hard and enjoyed the victory too long and cu the weight in the nick of time he wasn't out of shape he could have gone 15rds but he would not have been sharp......then to top it off SRL the boxing master psychologist seemed to understand that Duran would not be able to handle being clowned. The ultimate sin in latino culture is quitting, giving up is not acceptable...Duran carried the pride of his culture into the ring and afterwards he was punished by the Government for that. I remember when Arguello had Sandinista supporters climb into the ring after a victory and drape their flag over him he knew he could not go home and cried on TV because he had fought against their seizing the country...he had taken time off from boxing to carry a gun and fight with the Contras he knew what his countrymen would think of course he went back later but these things matter and Duran had everything he owned seized by the Panama government and was not allowed to return home for awhile.

There were times when I myself fought a fighter with a style I could not figure out and got so frustrated, I would fight in uncharacteristic ways to try to trick the guy or offer a free shot hoping they would get aggressive enough to make mistakes....there are those guys out there my fights as an amateur only had a few guys I struggled with they had my rhythm and timing no matter what I tried mentally I could not solve them and I couldn't get them to come in and fight on my terms....I never quit but I could see after 8 rounds of clowning and not fighting why a fighter may just throw his hands up and say F-you and leave....

 

Sports have a totally different ethos than the military. In the military it is considered smart to retreat when you are overmatched. Salvage your losses, get out of there with the least amount of damage, regroup, and come back strong another day. In sports everyone wants you to finish no matter how battered you are.

 

I'm sure at various points in their respective fights, Mike Weaver, Oscar Albarado, Jake Lamotta and Jeff Harding all felt like quitting. They just had more fortitude than Duran decided to have that night.

 

I'm telling you none of that. I'm not saying Duran was better off with less time or more time. Who's to say, though I think less time in between the fights would've been best, but who knows. I've never argued SRL should've done this or that or Duran was better off doing this or that. I'm simply disputing the notion that more time between the fights meant that he would be in better shape which is what you were asserting. As shown in his career... more time in between fights was worse for him not better. That is what I'm disputing and this is clearly seen when looking at Duran's career. What other fighters do with more time is irrelevant, were talking about what Duran does with more time, and thus the conclusion we can draw from those facts.

 

Sports illustrated quoted Arum

 

They all have fortitude. The training in itself is a test of fortitude. As Tyson once said: it’s all about the training. The fight itself is the easiest part(I paraphrase). Once the fight is underway there is a sort of altered mental state where they feel no pain. When Tyson was KOd by Holyfield, he said after the fight that he had no recollection of the later rounds.
Rope-a-Dope’s point was well taken: what honor is there in continuing to get battered when you know the fight is lost? Some might call it heroic, but it’s really foolish obstinacy. The fans all want them to keep going and get KOd and most fighters oblige them. It actually takes more guts to shun the pressure from the fans and say enough is enough, and protect the brain.