Oleksandr Usyk outclasses Joe Louis.

Knock him TFO.

 

I said it the other day, Usyk is like a new shiny toy to an element of people here.

 

Boxrec is great about pro records and terrible for amateur records

 

Nah this is a terrible post. I think usyk wins, but you're saying crazy stuff about Louis. I used to box and even at a novice level everyone who's getting fights as an adult is varying their rhythm. Timing is super important in boxing, it's trying to figure out your opponent's rhythm so you can hit them. It's a fundamental. The GOAT HW for sure varies his rhythm

 

So Ali varied his rhythm? Got it.

 

Louis held his gloves still and his feet planted to the ground just stepping either forwards or backwards, which would mean Usyk could read his sudden movements easier (when Louis punches), because they’re not disguised by subtle hand movements, bouncing and feinting, subtle steps etc, and Usyk does all of that, and he varies what movement he does specifically.

 

It's not even close. Dave Allen would literally beat Joe Louis but that doesn't take away from his greatness obviously. Different eras.

 

Stillness, in Louis’s case, isn’t the absence of disguise - it is the disguise.

Fighters like Usyk thrive on drawing reactions from opponents who over-commit, who bite on feints and visual misdirection.

But Louis wasn’t conditioned to flinch. He didn’t chase. He walked you down by erasing your exits and offering nothing to read.

To effectively assert Louis is easy to read simply because he doesn’t move the way Usyk moves is to fundamentally misunderstand how threat is concealed, and how timing is weaponized, in the ring.

 

He may well have sucked as a pro. He wouldn’t be the first decorated amateur to do so.

 

Controversial opinion on this forum but I absolutely agree. I say that as someone who favours classic fighters usually.

A highly skilled southpaw (who Louis rarely fought, let alone at Usyk's level) who is bigger and a better mover, alongside having an absolute proven iron chin (taking flush uppercuts and right hands from Dubious and AJ) sounds like an absolute nightmare. Louis was literally losing and getting outboxed by Conn. Usyk has the same skills but is bigger and stronger. And unlike lumps like Carnera or Bear he will not be there to be hit. Louis doesn't have overly fast feet despite his great fundamentals and he wasn't an overly commited body puncher either.

People are a bit blinded by nostalgia for the obvious historically greater fighter here imo. Horrendous H2H stylistic match up for Joe. In my opinion the worst style match ups for Usyk are Tyson, Frazier etc.

 

They are not similar enough to make a comparison meaningful.

 

Usyk specifically, is able to thrive in every scenario, he doesn’t specifically rely on getting a reaction, if someone isn’t reacting, he can simply poke and prod them from range in the meantime.

But, when Usyk would get a reaction from Louis, it would be desperation attack, since Louis would really struggle to time Usyk’s rhythm, so his attacks would largely not be based on him being able to read Usyk and actually land clean punches.

Usyk would poke and prod, feint with the hands and feet whilst Louis is standing still, then when Louis throws, Usyk will read it because Louis wouldn’t have the fluidity in his hands with pawing, feints etc, just business with his hand and arm movement to disguise punches coming.

Louis either needed to be able to back guys up and impose himself on them physically and just be able to disregard their feints, since he didn’t need to respect them.

Or if he wasn’t more physically imposing, then he needed the opponent to have a lack of skill and rhythm, and able to time their rhythm, like he did against Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer and Abe Simon.

If their rhythm was difficult to time, if Louis could time it once, then he could obviously knock them out, but against Usyk, if he hurt Usyk, Usyk could keep it at range, manoeuvre around and tie Louis up, unless Louis knocked him out with 1 punch, which I would doubt would happen.

When I’m using terms like ‘rhythm’ etc, it’s all a part of skill, in summary, Usyk is more skilled than Louis and he’s also 20lbs heavier, so Louis couldn’t just walk through the skill like he was able to do against other guys, like Walcott etc.

 

Usyk isn’t gonna stand there and let that happen, Louis isn’t catching him from far out, and if he does, Usyk, because he has the range, would ride whatever punches Louis does land from range.

Louis also isn’t just walking through Usyk’s skill with disregard and bullying him, like I said, he’s 20lbs lighter.

How do you expect Louis to land a fight ending barrage of punches here?

 

Because he’s better. Bottom line.

Look, you think Usyk is the most skilled thing to come along in recorded history. I don’t although he’ll probably wind up once he’s done in my top 20, maybe toward the top. Quite frankly there’s not a heavyweight in the last 30 years who really captivates me although I do acknowledge their results in the ring.

You and others think that boxing strategy has somehow magically evolved and that the fighters have evolved into these monolithic destruction machines. I don’t. To me they’re just big.

Nothing you or anyone else says is going to change my mind. Nothing I say is going to change your mind.

Let’s leave it at that and agree to disagree.