On this day, Leonard wins the decision over Hagler

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by andrewe, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Neither man was old. 32 vs 30, but one was out of the ring for nearly three years! That was Leonard. Advantage Hagler.

    Hagler was never smart in the ring. He let Leonard pick the ring size and the rounds in exchange the the bigger purse. Who's fault was that? Hagler ended up with about $20 million and Leonard $12 million. Hagler put money before giving him the best chance in the ring.

    Had this been 15 rounds, Hagler would wins rounds 13, 14 and 15 to win on point barring a knockdown That's a tall order.

    But it was 12, and I think Leonard who had an A+ chin and the better skills would have shown that he did in the 15th when Hagler presses it, instead of the 12th. I still think Halger knew he lost when the final bell rang.
     
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  2. thanosone

    thanosone Love Your Brother Man Full Member

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    More people like flash. Guess it went over your head.
     
  3. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm not a flash guy, and was a total Hagler fanatic. I scored it for Leonard by a point.

    Nothing went over my head.
     
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  4. thanosone

    thanosone Love Your Brother Man Full Member

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    It did. I only repeated what the guy said.
     
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  5. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "Thus, looking and moving so much better than anyone had a right to expect, Leonard was in a position to exploit the Schulberg Factor. This phenomenon—a compound optical illusion—may not have been discovered by Budd Schulberg, the novelist and fight aficionado, but he receives credit here for pointing it out to a few of us who were asking ourselves how Hagler came to be so cruelly misjudged. Budd's reasoning was that people were so amazed to find Sugar Ray capable of much more than they imagined that they persuaded themselves he was doing far more than he actually was.

    Similarly, having expected extreme destructiveness from Marvin, they saw anything less as failure and refused to give him credit for the quiet beating he administered.
    "


    Excerpt from...

    Sports Illustrated

    THE ILLUSION OF VICTORY
    Another view of the Leonard-Hagler decision

    Hugh McIlvanney

    Apr 20, 1987
     
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  6. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just to clarify - are you suggesting that the controversial nature of the decision was not being picked up, at the time?
     
  7. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I've had Hagler winning each time I watched this fight, dozens of times ranging from two to three points. I'm first to admit Leonard looked spectacular...early on. I thought Hagler dominated the majority of the last two thirds of the fights, Leonard mostly ran.

    I remain amazed Hagler wasn't at least accorded the champion's benefit of a doubt.

    When I first heard the decision I was half-convinced by a friend of mine that Leonard won on star power, and I think people here know what he meant by that.
     
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  8. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It was, at the time, a celebration of Ray's win, not about what a screw- job it was. Yes, that's what I'm saying.
     
  9. 88Chris05

    88Chris05 Active Member Full Member

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    Between me and a few guys I used to discuss boxing with elsewhere a few years back, McIlvanney's 'quiet beating' line became a bit of a running joke. With some justification, I'd say.

    McIlvanney was a brilliant writer, but not without fault and having bullishly predicted that Leonard was going to get mangled and stopped in short order before the fight, I think it's worth questioning whether he had an ulterior motive for coming up with an article like this in the aftermath. He called the fight completely wrong, as we all have done plenty of times. But rather than admit that he called it wrong, he wrote this hogwash to try and save face and convince everyone that actually, he'd called it right and anyone who saw a different fight to him only did so because they were ingorant and lacked his superior perception and understanding of the sport.

    Always had this down as a sour grapes piece by McIlvanney. He gives Leonard as little praise as possible and when you strip away the fancy wordplay provides very little evidence relating to action between the ropes for why Hagler won convincingly.

    A 'quiet beating'....Jesus.
     
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  10. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just for a sneak peek at what some of the scorecards were, go look at the wiki page for the fight. 32 scorecards are posted there, and the count is 17 for Leonard, 9 for Hagler, and 6 even.

    This suggests a close fight of course, which I wholly agree with. Like I said, I had Leonard by one point. With a fight that close you're always going to get a bit of dissention on way or another. The fact remains though, that in looking at that list ( and from what I was reading at the time in the boxing magazines) the storyline was all about Leonard's win, Leonard's performance, Leonard Leonard Leonard. The storyline was decidedly NOT that Hagler had been robbed. That's just not how it went down.
     
  11. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    For sure, Leonard was doing a victory lap, which was to be expected - but, the word "controversial" was used to describe the decision, the day after the fight, and has been ever since.

    Added to that, as you will probably recall, an investigation into the potential corruption of officials, associated with the fight, was undertaken by the Nevada attorney general's office.

    So, yes, on the one hand there was the buzz about Leonard's upset of Hagler and, on the other, there was universal acknowledgement that the result was contentious.
     
  12. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    What I am curious about is why Marvelous Marvin did not ask for a rematch ? He was a dominant World Middleweight Champion, the longest since Carlos Monzon. And why was the title fight only sanctioned by the WBC? I understand the frustration in a loss, but Hagler was even bitter in his first title try against Vito Antuofermo in 1979, I think it was poor strategy on his part against Vito, the second fight, Marvin dominated, good sound strategy.
     
  13. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think a lot of the controversy surrounded Guerra's scorecard, moreover than Hagler being robbed.
     
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  14. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Oh, indeed :lol:

    But, I always took the view that McIlvanney was just using creative license to make a point, as great writers often do.

    Re the idea that McIlvanney had an ulterior motive, it is of course a possibility. However, I am not inclined to believe it, if only for the fact that the main thrust of the article is quite valid, i.e. because of the general view of Leonard, before the fight, being that of a dead man walking and, conversely, Hagler having still been seen as a killer, when neither expectation was met in reality the pendulum of positive perception swung heavily in Leonard's favor.

    I might also have found the suggestion of McIlvanney covering his tracks as plausible, had it not been for his pointblank admission to Ray Leonard himself, at the end of a face-to-face interview with him, that he thought Hagler deserved the decision.
     
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  15. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hagler did ask for the rematch. However, one has to remember that Leonard went straight back into into retirement; about 6 or 7 weeks after their April '87 clash.

    Hagler waited until June '88 to retire. Leonard would come out of retirement again, a couple of months after that.
     
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