One reason why I rate Jim Jeffries verry highly among the great heavyweights.

Maybe he was 187 but not as tall as listed.

 

There are photos of him with Tom Sharkey and Denver Ed Martin which seem to back up his claimed height.

 

You miss my point entirely.I did not suggest that bigger men might overpower Jeffries ,rather,that his best wins were all over much smaller men where he could use his advantages in weight and strength to eventually wear them down.Against men his own age size and weight ,eg most of the heavyweights from the last 40 years, he would not have this advantage.

 

If Jeffries has anywhere near comparable power to Foreman, how come a 40 year old man, who had not fought in 2 years scaling 3 lbs inside the light heavyweight limit ,went 8rds with him and turned his face into raw hamburger?
Do you see Fitz doing that to Foreman?
You talk about Jeffries and his 25 tough rounds under the lights,and his 20 rounds previously.
How much endurance had Jeffries?
Well no more than the 5' 7'' Sharkey who was 32 lbs the lighter man ,and who charged him all night ,whilst Jeffries fought defensively.

Foreman was fighting a man 6'3'' 216 1/2lbs not a 5' 7'' 183lbs man, and
Foreman was going forward throwing bombs the whole time.
Jeffries was boxing conservatively ,countering Sharkey's rushes.
Its a question of pace, Foreman thought he would blow Ali out in a couple of rounds, and set out to do so.
Jeffries allready knew Sharkey could take his best and keep coming,and fought accordingly.

 

IF YOU HAVE A GOOD PAIR OF WORKING EYES, ITS NOT TOO HARD TO SEE JEFFRIES BEING EXTREMELY AGILE AND FLEXIBLE IN HIS 1901 TRAINING CLIPS, WHICH INCLUDE FULL SPARRING. JEFFRIES WAS A SUPER ATHLETE. PLAYING YOUR USUAL DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE IS NOT GOING TO MAKE YOU LOOK SMARTER.

Ali at his best weight was 210-212. Jeffries at his best weight was 215-220. If you look at the full tale of the tape, Jeffries has a bigger frame than Ali does. If you want to look at Ali at 220, he's much slower.

No on Tucker and Mahis. Mathis fast??? All of the others listed did not hit as hard, and are all smaller than Jeffries was.

Corbett was 33 when he first fought Jeffries. We have been over this a few times. Yes-- put Corbett in a big ring with another boxer, and he will go the distance. I do no think Ali or Holmes hit significantly harder than say Choynski or Jackson, and Corbett went 27 and 61 rounds with them.

Yes. Fitz was a special older fighter, and if you look at his career carefully Fitz was only stopped by Jeffries from 1891 to 1904. This is a combined 55 recorded fights with only two stoppages, both of which were at the hands of Jeffries.

I think Corbett if he fought them both in the same large ring that he fought Jeffires would go 10 at least once. Liston took plenty of guys the distance, inlcuding Marty Marshall twice. Foreman tended to gas early, and Liston wast fast handed.

I think it is relevant. If you put a modern fighter 50-100 years back, he's not going to be as big or strong. Nutrition and advanced conditing techniques coupled with better dietary supplements can make a person bigger. Such advances were not around in Jeffries time. I think you should reconsider your stance on this topic. Create a new topic and see what the board thinks.

 

The Jeffries training clips are overrated by people who are desperate to say he looks special on the available film.

The footage is inconclusive. It shows he had some skills and it shows he had some agility, but it shows nothing you wouldn't see from any decent in-shape professional fringe contender, for example.

 

Exactly! No fight footage of Jeffries shows him to be this agile flexible marvel his boosters claim.

 

Which workout clips have you seen that are better, that can be posted here for a compare and contrast?

 

I'll let you find workout clips.

 

So in other words, you can't recommend or post any? I submit that Jeffries was very agile, quick, flexible, strong, and on balance in his full training clips, and you would be hard pressed to find better were we can compare them side by side.

Do you agree or disagree on the the consensus is Jeffries was a very good athlete?

 

Of course he was a very good athlete.
So are the vast majority of in-shape ranked or fringe-ranked fighters, and other good pros. And top amateurs too, of course.

But there's nothing phenomenal or special displayed in those clips that would seperate him from those others, in skills or in athleticism.

 

Smaller than Jeffries?
Jeffries , between 6' 0' and 6' 2'' lets be generous and say 6' 2'' , best weight around 210. Be generous again say 215lbs, reach 76''
Holyfield 6 ' 2 1/2' 217lbs 78''
Tubbs 6' 3' 230-240lbs 79''
Tucker 6'5'' 221-230lbs 82''
Dokes 6'3'' 223lbs 78''
Williams 6'4'' 218-220lbs 82''
Mathis 6'3' 240lbs 76''
Ali 6'3'' 212-220lbs 80''
Holmes 6' 3'' 212-220lbs 80'

Want More ? Douglas 6'4'' 231lbs 83''
All taller ,all heavier, all with longer reaches except for Mathis, whose equals Jeffries.
Mathis not fast, watch his hands?
I specifically asked you for ACTUAL FIGHT FOOTAGE of Jeffries which shows this agility and flexibility.And ,as now, I put it in upper case so you could NOT mistake my question.
I once asked the same question of Janitor ,and he was honest ,and big enough to admit there was none, but then, you are not Janitor.

I asked for photographic proof,you gave me a" personal interpetation".
This does not make me look smarter,but it does tend to make you look dumber ,as though you cannot comprehend the question.

You can not judge a fighter on what he might have looked like had he been born into a different era,you can only judge him on his performances in his own era.
He would have been 10-15lbs heavier ,he would have been stronger,faster fitter,etc, is pure speculation.Its like, saying with the ready access to cocaine and heroin ,he would have been a drug addict, and just as nonsensical.

Where is your source that Jeffries and Corbett met in a large ring?

On Fitz, do you think the fact that many of them were middle weights ,and light heavies might have some thing to do with it?

 

Which FIGHT clips of Jeffries show him to have equal foot/hand speed to
Holyfield
Tucker
Tubbs
Dokes
Douglas
Holmes.
??????