Ortiz v Mayweather in September?

But you don't agree that Pacquiao does a better job over generally better opposition?

His wins over Barrera and Cotto are more impressive than anything Floyd has ever done..... Floyd would get much more credit from me if he closed the show more often.

Marquez, Zab, Shane and probably Oscar should have been stopped.

The only guy I'll criticise Pacquiao for not stopping is Margarito, but that's at least in part due to Margo having balls of steel and a negligent corner & referee.

If you recall the potential resume that I mapped out for Floyd as opposed to the one he has - with that he'd be right up there almost alongside Pacquiao. There'd be wins over half a dozen elite fighters, some of whom much closer to their prime than when he faced them.

Pacquiao's could have been strengthened by taking on Marquez for a 3rd time at 135 instead of Diaz, perhaps Juan Diaz instead of Oscar (this was before Marquez shredded him) then maybe something slightly better than Marg at 150lbs.

 

Perfect resume for Pacquiao after Marquez 2 would have been (without Floyd obviously)

Joel Casamayor at Lightweight for the title instead of Diaz
Oscar at 147
Hatton at Light Welterweight for the title
Shane Mosley at Welterweight for the title instead of Cotto
Miguel Cotto at Welterweight defending the title instead of Clottey
Antonio Margorito at Welterweight defendin the title
Andre Berto at Welterweight defending the title instead of Mosley

Would be nice to fit Marquez 3 in there somewhere at 135 or 140lbs.

What was your potential Floyd resume??


I do get why your down on Floyd. Thats why I don't get why you called me a ***** (Which is tragic using general forum slang btw) as I always say I get it just think you over do it and fail to see Pacquiaos problems.

Barerra is the only elite fighter Pacquiao has beat coming in to the fight in top form (i am talking 6,7+ wins)

 

Replace Corley/Bruseles with the then Tszyu
Replace Gatti with the then Zab
Replace Mitchell with Hatton
Replace Zab with Mosley
Replace Baldomir with DLH
Replace DLH with Margarito
Replace Hatton with Cotto

That takes you up to his first retirement..... I'd say that's a damn good slate and one he could have retired on with pride.

If he wanted to stick around, take a rematch with any of those later opponents and throw in a fight with Williams before fighting Pacquiao early/mid 2009.

I don't think a fighter like Berto would have fought Floyd, especially back then.

-----------------------------------

As for your Pac slate, I'd have fought Marquez III immediately after the 2nd fight, then took Juan Diaz instead of Casamayor - alright Casa was the champion, but he wasn't capable at that point of challenging Pacquiao.... pre-Marquez Diaz was an excellent fighter for me, the only thing he was lacking was a bit of a dig in his punches.

The rest are more than reasonable, I think pretty much everyone is unanimous in saying that the Clottey fight was a waste of time, and this fight with Shane isn't ideal either.

 

That's not that different really Rob, the only real outlier I see is missing out on Casa at lightweight.

It was better even to fight Margo at a higher catchweight, to give the bigger guy even more of an advantage.

Berto doesn't really add that much.

I'll bet if Pacquiao hadn't fought Clottey, then he would be getting accused of avoiding him now. Before that terrible matchup, he was seen as a solid fighter at welter and gave Cotto a hell of a time just before that. Don't know if people are dismissing it now because of how it turned out, but it would be wrong to revise our opinions at the time based on what we know now.

 

Berto at the time of making the fight would be the highest ranked challanger avalible at the weight not called Floyd Mayweather. Pacquiao has not done this since Hatton.

Berto looks like a **** fight now but if you wipe the fight with Ortiz would not have happened and we were going into Pacquiao vs Ortiz right now it would be No.1 vs No.2 in the Division and people would be more excited. He would be fighting a guys thats undefeated, young, in his prime.

If Pacquiao really wanted to cement his legacy after tomorow night without Mayweather he would go down to 140lbs and fight Tim Bradley.

 

The same thing happens with Mayweather though. Before the figth you have plenty of people tipping Mosley and Oscar De La Hoya (Hatton to but maybe that deluded Britis) but after the fight the opponent is downplayed. Baldomir is the Welterweight World Champion but its a **** fight once Mayweather beats him???


The difference between this fight and all the other Mayweather & Pacquiao fights of recent years apart from Marquez is that the opponent was not being dismissed completley in the build up.

 

Pointless Fight.

 

Baldomir was the linear WW champion, but had only really beaten an unfocused Zab Judah.

Margarito was the man everyone wanted Floyd to face and he was offered $8m to fight him.

The frustrating thing is that Mayweather would most probably have whipped Margarito and looked brilliant doing it, as Shane later did - instead of facing a diesel tractor in Baldomir, which was an easy peasy shut out.

Lovemore N'Dou would have tested Floyd more.

 

That might be true, but it's a bit cynical to look at it that way.

First off, Berto really only held that lofty position because he had avoided any major challenge and therefore preserved his undefeated record. Also Pacman had removed any other top Welters for him, meaning Berto was getting to top challenger by default.

Also, while we might have preferred Pacman to have faced Mosley earlier or anything like that, we have to appreciate that things like that only happen in an ideal world. We can pretend that business decisions like Arun makes don't affect boxing, but in the real world they do, and the Mosley fight was never happening before. There no reason to blame Pacquiao for it or suggest he's avoiding the top possible challenges. Really we should be praising his level of competition despite all the politics that goes in boxing.

We would still be saying that Berto was fairly untested and wouldnt be giving him much chance.

He might fight him down the line, if Bob signs a deal with Timbo.

 

Mayweather got more than that to fight Baldomir.

Here is a question for you. If Mayweather had faced Miguel Cotto in November 2005 when he asked Bob Arum to make the fight when both were title holders at 140lbs and if he had faced Shane Mosley in 2006 when Mosley went to the denist instead how would his resume have looked??

 

So what if he did?

Can't have been much more, surely..... not that it really mattered much because he got the DLH fight and won anyway - but Margarito would have looked far more impressive on his slate than shitty Baldomir, who didn't even have a pretty looking record in his favour and had run a mile when offered good money to face in early 2006.

As for the question - much better is the answer. Even though Cotto peaked in 2006/7 he was still formidable in 2005, far better than Gatti and Sharmba Mitchell.... and Shane would have had three years less wear and tear from fights with guys like Cotto, Mayorga and Margarito.

 

Baldomir was the champion. If he has schooled Margorito to a decision they would be saying "But Baldomir was the champion" and don't try and deny that.

So its not always Mayweathers fault! He wanted those fights when he is building up. When your at the top of the tree you cherry pick. Thats how boxing works. Pacquiao is at the top of the tree and he is cherry picking now.

 

It's a sad state of affairs to see great fighters cherry pick but in all fairness what would you do in their position ? it's easy to sit back and point out what they should do

 

Seeing as I predicted Pac to decimate Berto inside a round (and that wouldve been the case by the looks of it!!!) I can't see I wouldve given Pac too much credit for beating him. Then again, I've never rated Berto.

As I say, adding Berto to an already quality resume; not too shabby.

Fighting Berto when your resume desperately needs a boost; not a good move IMO.

 

Is it right that boxig works like that Rob?

Many, many instances where that isn't the case mate, are you just talking without thinking again and hoping no one will pull you up? ;-) :good