Oscar: I want to make Canelo vs GGG rematch, but Lemieux is another option.

That list left out plenty of people who came out after that list was made who stated that Canelo won. In fact, that list was last updated on Sep 21, 2017. It's hardly a complete list.

For example, Deontay Wilder came out with a video where he stated he had Canelo winning. The American Heavyweight Champion of the World had Canelo winning, is Wilder's opinion on who won not good enough for you? Jeff Mayweather and Floyd Mayweather Sr had Canelo winning. Mayweather Sr is a Legendary boxing trainer. I mean you're calling Wilder and Mayweather Sr "boxing morons". The Heavyweight Champion of the World and one of the most respected trainers in the history of the sport. You're pathetic to disrespect such legendary boxing figures.

 

Alvarez landed more telling punches in a fight that didn't have a lot of those moments. If that makes sense? If we counted, collectively how many of those shots actually landed it would most likely be between 8 and 12. Let's say Canelo landed 8 and GGG landed 4. That's just a guess but in totality factoring in the full body of work produced by each man, that's a drop in the bucket especially considering the offensive consistency Golovkin unleashed. There are many metrics in scoring a fight but when there aren't a lot of those "head snapping", "head crunching" punches that landed you have to consider the clean, effective punches that dictated the fight which Golovkin clearly had in his favor.

 

Alvarez did land the more telling punches, I'm glad you were able to admit that. Now, regardless of who you thought won, would you say that that fact in it of itself is still a pretty big accomplishment for Alvarez?

I mean, most people expected G to be the one who landed the more telling shots, going into the bout.

Can I ask you if there's ever been an opponent who's fought Gennady that you could say that about? (an opponent of Gennady's who clearly landed the hardest most telling punches)

Surely you'd agree that usually Gennady is the one landing the hardest most thudding most telling blows of a bout on his opponent. That didn't happen on September 16th. Something changed. We finally found an opponent that Gennady couldn't do that against. That says a lot about how good Alvarez is and how much success he had in the fight, since he was able to land the better harder punches.

 

More telling doesn't mean Alvarez was more effective. In totality it was GGG who was more effective offensively.

Would I call it a big accomplishment? No....for the simple reason that GGG wasn't moved or affected by the noteworthy punches that did land. Had Alvarez done more of or was more consistent the accomplishment would have been a feat that held more value.

At the end of the day GGG's offense was more effective. Alvarez mitigated risk which allowed him to avoid the big shots a lot of fans expected him to land. It was s double edged sword for Canelo....while mitigating risk, he also stifled his own success by limiting his own chances offensively.

Jacobs, Brook, Lemieux, Rosado, Monroe....all of them landed hard shots that found their mark on GGG. Kell actually landed more than Alvarez. He just didn't balance his defense and offense well enough to bank more rounds. Alvarez was in the opposite end of the spectrum....while he too was unbalanced with his blend of Offense/Defense he was far more defensive minded than Brook who was overly offensive minded.

As I mentioned before, GGG's inability to land those hard shots we are accustomed to seeing from him had everything to do with the back peddling strategy Alvarez implemented. Most of the fight punches were being thrown while moving. In spots there were moments where they went toe to toe, but not very often.

The harder punches were landed by GGG. More telling punches were landed by Alvarez. The impact of GGG's punches are deceptive. They don't look very hard but you don't want to get hit with them to test the waters. Since he's not as fast or flashy his punches aren't always as telling especially when a fighter on Alvarez's level is using his legs as the main source of his defense.

 

Pretty sure Joseph Parker is the heavyweight champion of the world.

 

There is no way Oscar risks Canelo with Trout.
There is no way Oscar risks Canelo with Lara.
There is no way Oscar risks Canelo with GGG.

Yeah, we've heard that time and time again.

I have almost no doubt if Lemieux is victorious against Saunders that GBP will match him with Canelo, whether its before or after the rematch I dont know, what I do know is that Canelo is on another level to Lemieux. Low risk fight imo.

 

Saying that G's punches vs Alvarez may not look very hard but they really are hard has some merit to it. He did land some hard punches on Alvarez, including some hard jabs, though I think you'd agree that Alvarez took them quite well. However, in trying to parse what you're saying, surely you'd agree that the "harder-looking" punches were landed by Alvarez. (in terms of the actual impact of the face / skull that was visibly apparent) Like for example, on that brutal uppercut by Canelo in the 8th round. (with 41 seconds left) I mean, that landed hard, you could see G's face contorting upon taking that shot flush on his chin. I don't think G landed anything all night with that kind of impact.

Don't get me wrong, I think that in terms of pure brute-force power, G probably throws harder than Canelo. However, when it comes to G actually landing a hard, earth shattering, punch changing fight on Canelo, that didn't happen. You can have all the power in the world, but if you don't have the speed and skill to land, it's not going to matter. This is the challenge for G, can he actually land hard fight-changing punches on Canelo that can hurt Canelo. He couldn't do that in the first fight, and that had a lot to do with Canelo's movement and elusiveness, a lot of the things you are criticizing him for is what made it hard for G to land. This to me was a smart tactic by Canelo because when it comes down to it, he was the one who was able to land the more impactful "hard-looking" punches in the bout. If you stand right in front of G, and let him tee off on you, you're probably gonna get hurt. So in my estimation Canelo was quite clever in how he used movement and upper body movement to negate G's usual offense and make G chase him which frustrated G at times. It remains to be seen if G will be able to land a fight-changing punch that hurts Canelo in the rematch. (something that most G fans expected him to be able to do on Sept 16, which he wasn't able to do)

 

110% I agree with you on Alvarez's punches looking and sounding harder. That's the advantage a fast, sharp counter puncher has when it comes to their style. It's noteworthy....people are visual and they like aesthetically pleasing things wether it's a beautiful woman or a beautiful boxing style. That uppercut from Alvarez and one of those right hands from GGG were the best punches of the night. Both men took them well but it proved they both have a chin. Grant it....those were punches they saw coming and were prepared to take flush, but lesser fighters would have been knocked down or out from those shots.

The tactic from Alvarez to use more movement going back was a catch 22....it helped him avoid the dangers of GGG's vaunted power, but it also kept Alvarez from being in the appropriate range where he could counter effectively or land combinations for that matter. That's why I was inclined to point out that Alvarez needed a better balance to his fight strategy. Still incorporate the movement but also use his defensive savvy to stay in the pocket to get off more with his offense and create more counter opportunities. It's more risky, but the payoff is more rich.

 

That's a reasonable post.

Actually I was one of the guys that predicted that Canelo would have success with his flurries; I knew that Canelo would look good when he had his moments. He's a top-shelf fighter, nobody has ever denied that.

The real surprise to me was Canelo's vastly improved footwork and the fact that he ran so much. He's not known as a runner, and he is (or was) known for mediocre footwork.

The change in his style enabled him to survive 12 and go the distance.

It didn't enable him to win, however.

 

Just because you repeat it and call it fact, doesn't make it true. What do you go by to believe they were the harder punches?

 

You may be right, Lance, but you're gonna make Shadow's OCD flare up again. :0

 

uhhh.. Maybe sight, and sound.

Really Lance, are you that stupid?

 

Speaking of stupid, remember when you says LIam Smith would be 3G's toughest opponents just after canelo beat Smith? You have a proven tendency to say pretty much ANYTHING to defend your hero. This is no different.

If you can't be honest about the level of an opponent, why should your word on this be any different? You cried like a baby over the fishnet pics, even after Oscar admitted it. Go away child...