you on commision at the Canizales fan club? been plugging him for the last few days non-stop. i really need to see him all i have is his fight with Jones
You know how it is when you first discover a new fighter. Exciting times, and it's a bit of an ijustice that guys like you and Bill haven't seen him in action. A farcry from the real Orlando, who would have smashed Jones to bits down at Bantamweight. Canizales was probably the hardest hitter in the division during his reign at Bantam, and Jones had always been chinny. Even in that fight, Orlando was hurting Jones with a lot of his right hands. Go check out his fight with Seabrooks. It's on youtube, and before Orlando seems to injure both of hi hands (they're swollen in the post fight interview), he's putting on a clinic in combination punching, and hurts Seabrooks with every shot he throws.
yeh when i first see fighters i cant shut up about them. ill check it out but Youtube dosent work well on my computer so ill try get a copy of them on disc
I've ordered my Orlando career set, and when they arrive, I have no problems with duplicating all the discs and sending them too you.
Bump Joe Louis down, knock Conn and Moore off. I'd have to think of a few names but that list could be perfect.
Ali is a really difficult man to rank I think. In his first reign he was brilliant, but flawed. In his second reign he was physically declined, but masterful. Ultimately though, for all-round ability, I just can't place him on the same level as Duran, Whitaker, Pep or Leonard. I think of Ali as the bracket below that one, alongside guys like Hagler, Monzon, Olivares, Arguello and the 130-135 Chavez. What do you think McGrain, am I being unfair on The Greatest?
A shout I haven't seen in this thread. Not a lot of film on him floating around, Tyrone Everett. Watch him school Escalera before Arguello got to him: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIwnRSEUsZQ[/ame] The whole fight is out there. Great abillity.............................. Salvador Sanchez deserves more mention (Bill Butcher did). He had loads of abillity. He had kind of a 6th sense in the ring. I'm not sure if that part of him meets the thread criteria. Always seemed to be a step ahead of his opponent. Never, ever rattled.
Looking at this from the opposite angle for a minute, despite both having plenty of ability, two fighters who would rate a lot lower on head to head prowess than for overall accomplishments for me are Canto and Pac. Not having canto in a top ten flyweight list is a bit like not having Louis in a heavyweight one.Yet he'd be in the 9 to 15 region of a head to head list for me, and wouldn't make a top 100 head to head i don't think. Not having Pac in a top 100 P4P seems unfair these days, all things considered.But he likely would struggle to make a top 100 head to head if i did one, and would only be in the top 20 of the junior weightclasses he's fought in.
Pacquiao is a monster head to head for me. Not after a long protracted debate here, but what are your main objections? To leaky?
Pac is a monster against certain styles, against others he wouldn't be made to look quite as good I feel. The best pure boxers and technical box-punchers would beat him at the lower weights, IMO.
At the lower weights, no doubt. The thing is, we have one excellent (on the eye) perfromance at LW followed by stellar performances at the weights above. Is it fair to take that form into account in judging Manny versus fighters at LW? Or has moving up benifited him?
I think he's got a great ability to destroy good fighters and maybe brutally surprise a few ecellent ones at all of the weights he's fought at from 126 and up, maybe more than a lot of other all-time greats, but yeah, comparing him to the real top fighters(say those most likely to appear in a top 20) he's either a bit too leaky and disjointed(featherweight)which offsets the physical powerhouse side of things....or from 140 up not quite physically imposing, or hard hitting enough against the real greats there.I see his workrate being shut down against that level of fighter there, and if he starts getting backed up he's no longer nearly as dangerous. 130/135 might be his zone for these kind of head to head things.He would rate highly at 130 for me of course.
What do you guys make of Canto in this case?.As superbly skilled as he was i'e alwyas thought he was a bit too small and lacking in adaptability, which would be tough against the more physically talented little guys.He doesn't match up well with a lot of the other greats imo.