Pacfans - Enlighten me please!

:huh on many levels

 

Assuming that you did not see the fight, JMM punched as soon as PAc was coming in and kept punching as he was going out....resulting in him winning most of the exchanges.
Floyd isnt that type of fighter.

 

Then please tell me the great difference in style between JMM and Cotto? They both operate out of a similar stance, employ similar attacking and defensive styles, the only difference is that one is much bigger. Look at Manny in the weighin for the second fight and please try to tell me he isn't weight drained, and then try and tell me that being weight drained does not have an adverse effect on a fighter.

 

I don't understand all these posts adressed to pac fans. Is our opinion really that important? I thought we were the least knowledgeable boxing fans anyway?


To answer your question, Pac is not, and never has been a defensive master. He has flaws and always will. I have no problem with Floyd being favourite in this fight. In fact I'd be surprised if he wasn't. However I'll always believe in Pac and won't bet against him ever. His defense has improved. The Clottey fight was not his best performance IMO. Against Cotto he took some shots but really Cotto didn't land as much as people make out. Even when Pac was stood in frontof him, even when Pac was on the ropes all Cotto could do is to land on Manny's arms and gloves. To say his defense is crap is an exageration. I do think he needs to fight the way he did against David Diaz though i.e use head movement and try to get out of the way of punches rather than try and block them.


I thnk Pac has a chance because he's very fast, has great footwork, power, punches from awkard angles, has a high punch output, the heart of a true warrior and that southpaw stance. Pac is not the same fighter he was when he lost to Morales or when he struggled against Marquez! Realise this.

Now I got a couple of question for the joyboys.

1. If Pac has so many weaknesses and is so flawed then why even make this fight? They may as well not bother since Floyd has already won right? Who else should Floyd fight instead of Pac? Paul Williams? He's too sloppy and would get countered all night right? Then Floyd should just retire because he's too good for anyone to have a chance against him anyway:roll:

2. If Pac is so flawed, will you give Floyd credit if he wins? You really shouldn't give him much credit if you think pac's nothing special.

I mean seriously what the **** do you expect pac fans to say? "our boy has no chance against Floyd man, no chance at all. Floyd is a master technician and will counter Manny all night. They shouldn't even bother fighting". Jeez.

Most of the pacfans don't reply seriously to this kind of **** because there's no reasoning with joyboys. All one sided **** talkin bout Marquez did this, Marquez did that, Pac got knocked out 2 times etc etc etc. So Pacfans just say "**** Floyd, he's a *****, Pac's gonna tap that ass" and you guys start crying "waahh, *******s don't know **** about boxing,you can't have a logical convo with them waahh"

I'm the only dumbass that actually replies to you joyboys when you start threads like this. If you're a true fan of boxing you know that Pac is the ONLY guy from welterweight downwards that is considered a real threat to Floyd. Floyd is a slight favourite but face it, Pac has a chance and Pacfans are gonna overrun this ****ing place and go mental if he wins. You just mad cuz you know it could happen.

Pacfans have become the most important voice on ESB. Good to know our opinion is taken so seriously.

 

Exactly. They expect this clear concise answers all the time, but people know better than to engage in their endless back and forth.

This guy became the biggest Floyd nuthugger since JMM lost to Floyd. Now he's been backing Floyd against Pac so hard. It's really sad how he jumped on the Floyd bandwagon all of a sudden.

 

It's funny seeing Pacquiao fans openly state that he has just now reached his peak. Interesting, a fighter who's been fighting since he was 16, has won numerous world titles, has been in numerous wars, and has over 50 fights, has now reached his peak at age 30+, while fighting in his 8th and 9th weight class. What's more amazing is that Pac fans said he was slipping after the second Marquez fight.

 

You know what I'm saying. What was Oscar able to do for the first half of the fight that troubled money that Pac cannot?

What was Zab Judah able to do?

All one-sided ****.

They mention Morales and Marquez, you mention Castillo. They say "oh but Floyd had an injury". You say "well Manny was weight drained and he's actually improved since then". They say "excuses, excuses". You can't win man.

 

Why would you assume that all fighters have the same lifecycle? Just come out with the bull**** already, you think the guy's on PEDs

 

These guys are a fan of fighters, not the sport. In fact, they're not even a fan of fighters, they just like getting one over on fans of other fighters. Like Football hooligans who don't care about the game, just fighting each other. Pathetic.

Pacfans, there's no copyright on my original reply to this thread. Feel free to copy and paste that **** like a mother****a when you can't be bothered to argue with these dudes. There's lot of threads poppng up addressed to pacfans lately.

 

The way I see it, Pac goes into his fight with Mayweather with major disadvantages:

1) Pac is shorter - 5'6 1/2" vs. 5'8"

2) Pac has shorter reach by 5"

3) Pac is susceptible to counters (see: EVERY fight he's ever had, vs. JMM)

4) Pac is susceptible to left hooks (see: destroyed right ear vs. Cotto)

5) Pac is susceptible to straight rights (see: vs. Morales, vs. Clottey)

6) Pac has known weakness to body attack (KO'd with body shot)

7) Pac hasn't shown ability to fight or handle a fighter moving backwards (see: EVERY fight he's ever had)

Unlike Shane Mosley, Pac doesn't have 1, or 2, or 3, or 4 punch KO power (see: all Pac TKOs... other than Hatton, Pac has not stretched any opponent over 140 pounds and all of them finished the fight on their feet after rounds of flush combinations from Pac. Even at lower weights, Pac TKOs almost all from accumulation)

9) Pac throws a lot, lands a little (Pac's total connect percentage almost always <35%)

10) Pac has no jab, eats the jab (see: every Pac fight, vs. Morrales, vs. Cotto)


These are just the 10 off the top of my head. Now can someone tell me which one of these does NOT play into Mayweather's hands? Can someone provide a SANE argument for why Manny will beat Mayweather if they meet?

Let's look at some other issues:

1) Pac beat DLH and Hatton in more impressive fashion than Floyd - let's look at the tape:

Pac/Hatton @140, Floyd/Hatton @147 - Floyd fought a bigger, stronger version of Hatton. Oh, that's right, 140 was Hatton's "best weight." So, let me get this straight... Pac can move up TWO weight classes from the Diaz fight and be FASTER and MORE COORDINATED while Hatton moves up ONE weight class and suddenly can't fight? Hatton walks around at 190... so am I supposed to believe that having 7 MORE pounds of muscle wouldn't have helped him in his fight against Floyd? And, if that is the case, how is it that Pac can do what almost NO fighter does by going up TWO weight classes and not lose any speed or coordination?

2) Pac/DLH @147, Floyd/DLH @154 - Am I now supposed to believe that Pac beating DLH at 147 was a better win than Floyd beating DLH at 154? DLH walks around at 160-165. He hadn't made 147 in over six years. No question that Floyd's win over a younger, stronger DLH was a better quality win.

3) Pac vs. Cotto @145 catchweight - Pac fought DLH at 147, but made Cotto come down to 145. Why? If the two pounds didn't make a difference, why not fight him at 147?

4) Pac "destroyed" Clottey @147 - OK, Pac throws 1200 punches against a stationary opponent, hammers his body and DOESN'T KO him? Pac's supposedly vicious body attack could not get Clottey to drop his guard... where was all of Pac's vaunted punching power? And how do you land only TWENTY PERCENT against a guy who isn't punching back? Even if you make the excuse that Clottey was in his shell, wouldn't a guy with Pac's supposed power and open access be able to get Clottey to drop his guard?

5) Pac's "KO" power - Other than Hatton, who has Pac KO'd with one punch... or two... or three... or four, etc. DLH and Cotto were still standing after being nailed with flush combination after flush combination. Diaz only succumbed to Pac's assault after 9 brutal rounds of pummeling. Pac stunned Cotto with two flush counters and couldn't get him to sit down even after 12 rounds. Clottey took 1200 of Pac's best and he looked better after the fight than Pac. Shane Mosley has a history of stunning and KOing people with one punch... Pac doesn't. PERIOD.


I'm still trying to figure out why people think Pac will beat Mayweather. Mayweather recuperated immediately after getting hit with two SSM right hands... am I supposed to believe Pac is a harder puncher even though there is absolutely no proof of that?

Let's put the nuthugging behind us and address the issues. If Pac fans are serious, then someone PLEASE offer some RATIONAL reason why Pac will beat Floyd.

 

The fight should be made because it's the fight everyone wants to see and it's a fight that would make Mayweather a ton of money. For some reason, Pacquiao is also ranked ahead of Floyd. That's another good reason to make the fight

This is one fight where you have to give Floyd credit. Either he beats a great fighter or he exposes an overhyped media creation. Either way he shoots up the rankings considering Pacquiao is ranked ahead of him.

Pacquiao fans can say whatever they want. If they truly believe that Pacquiao deserves to be p4p no.1, then they shouldn't worry about what other people say, as they should believe that Pacquiao will come out on top. If Pac fans dont think he can beat Floyd, then they should admit that Pacquiao is currently being overrated.

The TS made a very sound and logical argument. Marquez's style gave Pacquiao fits. You can say Pacquiao improved all you want since that fight, but he really hasn't faced that type of style that Marquez possesses since that fight. Mayweather would be the first and he's a lot more talented than Marquez. This is a much better argument than Pac fans bringing up the Judah or Mosley fight, fights that Mayweather won with ease.

How is Floyd even the favorite over Pacquiao when they fight in the same division and Pacquiao is ranked ahead of him in the p4p rankings? Pacquiao is supposed to be the best fighter of the last decade and the best p4p fighter on the planet. If Pacquiao is the only real threat to Mayweather, and Mayweather wins decisively, I guess that would mean Mayweather is head and shoulders above his peers.

 

Manny is not as big or long as Oscar, and his jab is nowher near as good.

Manny is not as fast as Zab and does not hit as hard. He is also nowhere near as good of a counterpuncher as Zab. Zab's counterpunches are what troubled Mayweather the most in that fight.

In what ways is Manny similar to Castillo? I really don't think they fight anything alike.

 

I believe Floyd is favored to beat Pacquiao, but Pacquiao also has some power. Ask Marquez,Barrera,Cotto,Diaz. Marquez should've have won without the KD's but that is what is special about KD's is that they can change the outcome of the fight.

IF Floyd makes the mistake of not respecting Pacquiaos power, then he will pay for it on the scorecards or off it.

 

Thanks Golden Boxer:thumbsup