Pacquiao and the black fighter dilema

doubleplaidinum · Nov 17, 2009

BigReg said: ↑

I'm pretty sure most people here have heard the criticisms from Campbell and his trainer that Pacquiao avoids black fighters. I never brought into this. It makes no sense to not fight someone based on their race. However, a fighter's style is very important when coming to match making. Any fighter can be beat if they go up against the wrong style. As such, fighters(especially top level fighters with clout) will routinely avoid styles that will trouble them.

For Pacquiao, the style that will give him the most trouble are boxers, particularly slick boxers that with a good defense. Pacquiao's people will not put him in there with that type of fighter unless there is a high demand for the fight and subsequently, a lot of money on the table. There are 3 good boxers that Pacquiao faced in his career that I can think of; Morales, Barrera, and Marquez. Two of those guys gave Pac trouble and all of them are typical Mexican fighters in the sense that they posses a ton of heart and skill but are prone to be drawn into brawls and tend to neglect defense. They are not exactly slick and their lack of defense and willingness to brawl falls right into Pac's strenghts.

So how do black fighters fit into the equation?
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, and are typically trained in the U.S. Now there haven't been many black fighters that Pac could have faced in his career. The few that he could've faced, his team elected not to put him in there with them. The winner of Guzman/Soto was supposed to fight Pac. Guzman won, Arum said he was boring and they passed on the fight. Pac went up to 135 and skipped right past Campbell who had 3 belts and fought straight ahead, no defense, David Diaz. After that he faced Hoya(no defense, no right hand) no problem there. Then Hatton(no defense, no right hand) no real problem there. Next, Mosley offered to go all the way down to 140 to fight Pac. This offer was of course turned down and Pac fought Cotto instead(no defense, no right hand), understandable.

As of now, there are no more brawlers and/or one handed defensively challenged fighters for Pac to take on. Pac is a great fighter and he has proven as much througout his career. However, he will have to do something he has never done before, take on one of those slick boxers that his team steered him away from his entire career. Some of the top fighters at 140 are Peterson, Bradley, and Alexander. At 147 you have Mosley, Williams, Berto, and Mayweather. It looks like Mayweather is the guy he'll have to face next. Unfortunately, Mayweather is the slickest out of all these guys and posses the best defense. It's a big challenge for Pac. Pac has a lot of heart though and he's up for it. After all he's accomplished, he still has the chance to do something he's never done before and raise his legacy even higher.

Keep in mind, I AM NOT SAYING PAC AVOIDS BLACK FIGHTERS. I'm saying that his team has kept him away from those relatively slick type boxers.
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that's a pretty solid generalization right there. it's obviously not on the level of nallege, but imo, putting people of any race into a category seems pretty racist. other than that, it's a well thought out post.

he's fought the best in the biggest and most marketable fights he could. i'm pretty sure you can leave it at that.

without getting into a deep statistical analysis of how many boxers are in fact black compared to other races in the U.S., i think it's fair to say there are just as many slick fighters of all kinds of other races as there are slick black fighters.

wingchung · Nov 17, 2009

Tszyu said: ↑

Manny is ducking Zab Judah, everyone knows this
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chicken dance judah.

latineg · Nov 17, 2009

Popkins said: ↑

In the lower weights, Pac fought:

Erik Morales
Marco Antonio Barrera
Juan Manuel Marquez

WHY?

He could have been fighting:

Junior Jones (knocked out by Morales)
Kevin Kelley (knocked out by Barrera)
Derrick Gainer (stopped by Marquez)

Pac, Roach and Arum must have been scared of these black African-Americans hovering around the top 10 in their divisions, so they went for the Mexicans at the very top of the divisions instead! Scared!!

At the higher weights, Pac fought:

Oscar De La Hoya
Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto

WHY?

He could have been fighting:

Nate Campbell (big money household name who has never been KO'd by Robbie Peden, and who was on a long run of big wins when Pac was around)

Joan Guzman (another big money household name who has an outstanding big name big win resume that would make Oscar, Hatton or Cotto blush)

Timothy Bradley (another global megastar who brings the money, the belts, and the accomplishments with him to the table)

Conclusion: At the weights Pac fought at, if he wanted the best opponents and the biggest money, he would not have fought Barrera, Morales, Marquez, De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto, he would have fought Jones, Gainer, Kelley, Campbell, Guzman and Bradley.

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Conclusion: your black and your unable to cope with pacman itz the only explanation. well that or your just a **** disturber now stop raggin on the flilipino ffs, hez just dam good dont feel threatened you dont even have to fight him.

klion22 · Nov 17, 2009

BigReg said: ↑

I'm pretty sure most people here have heard the criticisms from Campbell and his trainer that Pacquiao avoids black fighters. I never brought into this. It makes no sense to not fight someone based on their race. However, a fighter's style is very important when coming to match making. Any fighter can be beat if they go up against the wrong style. As such, fighters(especially top level fighters with clout) will routinely avoid styles that will trouble them.

For Pacquiao, the style that will give him the most trouble are boxers, particularly slick boxers that with a good defense. Pacquiao's people will not put him in there with that type of fighter unless there is a high demand for the fight and subsequently, a lot of money on the table. There are 3 good boxers that Pacquiao faced in his career that I can think of; Morales, Barrera, and Marquez. Two of those guys gave Pac trouble and all of them are typical Mexican fighters in the sense that they posses a ton of heart and skill but are prone to be drawn into brawls and tend to neglect defense. They are not exactly slick and their lack of defense and willingness to brawl falls right into Pac's strenghts.

So how do black fighters fit into the equation? Simple, slick boxers with a respect for defense are typically black, and are typically trained in the U.S. Now there haven't been many black fighters that Pac could have faced in his career. The few that he could've faced, his team elected not to put him in there with them. The winner of Guzman/Soto was supposed to fight Pac. Guzman won, Arum said he was boring and they passed on the fight. Pac went up to 135 and skipped right past Campbell who had 3 belts and fought straight ahead, no defense, David Diaz. After that he faced Hoya(no defense, no right hand) no problem there. Then Hatton(no defense, no right hand) no real problem there. Next, Mosley offered to go all the way down to 140 to fight Pac. This offer was of course turned down and Pac fought Cotto instead(no defense, no right hand), understandable.

As of now, there are no more brawlers and/or one handed defensively challenged fighters for Pac to take on. Pac is a great fighter and he has proven as much througout his career. However, he will have to do something he has never done before, take on one of those slick boxers that his team steered him away from his entire career. Some of the top fighters at 140 are Peterson, Bradley, and Alexander. At 147 you have Mosley, Williams, Berto, and Mayweather. It looks like Mayweather is the guy he'll have to face next. Unfortunately, Mayweather is the slickest out of all these guys and posses the best defense. It's a big challenge for Pac. Pac has a lot of heart though and he's up for it. After all he's accomplished, he still has the chance to do something he's never done before and raise his legacy even higher.

Keep in mind, I AM NOT SAYING PAC AVOIDS BLACK FIGHTERS. I'm saying that his team has kept him away from those relatively slick type boxers. It just so happens that many of them are black.
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Mosley, Williams and especially freaken Berto are anything but "slick" defensive fighters who fight off the back foot and counters.

Anyways, i don't agree with your post. And it's all a moot point because if they fight, they will fight and the best man will win. That's all it is.

Tszyu · Nov 17, 2009

Pac will knock Mayweather out like a bag of ****

doubleplaidinum · Nov 17, 2009

klion22 said: ↑

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Anyways, i don't agree with your post. And it's all a mute point because if they fight, they will fight and the best man will win. That's all it is.
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bingo.

Tszyu · Nov 17, 2009

Pac is scared of fighters with 1 leg too, he has not fought anyone with one leg.

doubleplaidinum · Nov 17, 2009

Boxing Fanatic said: ↑

Yeah, only if u are gay, it is.
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or you're turned off by 800 pounds of cellulite. :barf

latineg · Nov 17, 2009

doubleplaidinum said: ↑

i second that! ****in A, i almost lost my dinner.
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dont be scared of the curvez boyfriend :smooch

mighty fine if i do say so myself :good

and im filipino :bbb

PH|LLA · Nov 17, 2009

I think the only ppl who think Pac doesn't fight black fighters are black people and even the majority of them don't buy into that bs

klion22 · Nov 17, 2009

Popkins said: ↑

In the lower weights, Pac fought:

Erik Morales
Marco Antonio Barrera
Juan Manuel Marquez

WHY?

He could have been fighting:

Junior Jones (knocked out by Morales)
Kevin Kelley (knocked out by Barrera)
Derrick Gainer (stopped by Marquez)

Pac, Roach and Arum must have been scared of these black African-Americans hovering around the top 10 in their divisions, so they went for the Mexicans at the very top of the divisions instead! Scared!!

At the higher weights, Pac fought:

Oscar De La Hoya
Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto

WHY?

He could have been fighting:

Nate Campbell (big money household name who has never been KO'd by Robbie Peden, and who was on a long run of big wins when Pac was around)

Joan Guzman (another big money household name who has an outstanding big name big win resume that would make Oscar, Hatton or Cotto blush)

Timothy Bradley (another global megastar who brings the money, the belts, and the accomplishments with him to the table)

Conclusion: At the weights Pac fought at, if he wanted the best opponents and the biggest money, he would not have fought Barrera, Morales, Marquez, De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto, he would have fought Jones, Gainer, Kelley, Campbell, Guzman and Bradley.

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Ah shaddup already with this race sh*t.

Jaaames · Nov 17, 2009

How about Zahir Raheem.... Right after he beat Morales, I don;t think HBO wanted him to fight Zahir...

MattMattMatt · Nov 17, 2009

Pimp C said: ↑

And you're an irrational **** who downplays the fact that Pac doesn't have one elite black american on his resume in a sport that is littered with great blacks.:deal
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You miss the point. It is nothing to do with history, if the best fighters available at that point in time were Mexican and not African American then Pac would have been critised of avoiding the real challenges if he had fought the African Americans. Any boxer's 'resume' is obviously judged on the quality of the fighters on it, if boxers of one particular style (e.g. slick in this case) have just not been good enough around his weight class up to this point then he should not waste time fighting them.

BigReg · Nov 17, 2009

that's a pretty solid generalization right there. it's obviously not on the level of nallege, but imo, putting people of any race into a category seems pretty racist. other than that, it's a well thought out post.

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I can see where you're coming from. But it's not racist because I'm not claiming slick boxers are superior to everyone. There a variety of styles in boxing, some are work better against others. The fact of the matter though is, West African descendants are genetically predisposed to having stonger leg muscles, good body awareness, and fast twitch muscles. It's these genetic traits that make blacks of West African descent more suited to fight that slicker boxer stlye. Now does this make the better than everyone? No, just different. Asians are typically genetically predisposed to being more flexiable and having better stamina than their West African counterparts, Europeans tend to have greater lung capcaities and stronger upper bodies, East Africans have slender builds, and superior stamina as well. Different doesn't mean better, and therefore doesn't mean racist. The beautiful thing about boxing is that all races have genetic traits that allow them to excel at the sport. These different genetic traits have helped to create the different styles that we see in the ring today.

he's fought the best in the biggest and most marketable fights he could. i'm pretty sure you can leave it at that.

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I agree with you here. I was just thinking about Campell's comments, it came to me why he thought what he thought, and why I thought it was off base.

without getting into a deep statistical analysis of how many boxers are in fact black compared to other races in the U.S., i think it's fair to say there are just as many slick fighters of all kinds of other races as there are slick black fighters.

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I can assure you that you are wrong. Anyone that has watched boxing can tell you this. Are there slick fighters of all races, sure there are. It would be ridiculous to state other wise. However, most of them are Black. Again, there's nothing wrong with that. Different does not equal better.

cilldara11 · Nov 17, 2009

El oh El at the people who couldn't spot the sarcasm.

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