Since some people seem to think Boxrec is a good way to asses early boxers, here's a case study of one I did a small bit of digging on Paddy Gorman final record 9-9-1 with 8 NDs, a no contest, and two news draws. Additionally I found: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/227675782?searchTerm=paddy gorman slavin&searchLimits=dateFrom=1880-01-01|||dateTo=1900-12-01 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/191208669?searchTerm=paddy gorman slavin&searchLimits=dateFrom=1880-01-01|||dateTo=1900-12-01|||l-decade=188 An 1888 win over Bill Slavin https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/228170023?searchTerm=paddy gorman&searchLimits=dateFrom=1880-01-01|||dateTo=1900-12-01 2 round ko win for Gorman against "Jimmy Duffy". Duffy knocked down 12 times. 2nd of dec 1890 at Coney Island https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/228177201?searchTerm=paddy gorman&searchLimits=dateFrom=1880-01-01|||dateTo=1900-12-24 1891 draw with Mike Leary https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/121522457?searchTerm=paddy gorman goff&searchLimits=dateFrom=1880-01-01|||dateTo=1900-12-01 https://www.coloradohistoricnewspap...00--en-20--1--txt-txIN-paddy+gorman-------0-# And 1897 loss to Charley Goff [edit] Forgot to added his 27th round loss to Young Mitchell https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/...imits=dateFrom=1880-01-01|||dateTo=1900-12-01 [/edit] Which would take his record to 11-11-2 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/227307957?searchTerm=paddy gorman&searchLimits=dateFrom=1880-01-01|||dateTo=1900-12-24 However this mentions some early fights. 1885 3 wins 1886 2 wins 1887 3 wins (not on boxrec) That takes his record to 19-11-2, just with fights I found from less than a day looking at news archives
It's a usefull resource, but it's clearly incomplete, especially early one, but people still seem not to know. Nothing wrong with taking some info from it, but it's not definitive, and I think the notes etc. sometimes contain questionable stuff. Like Corbett-McCoy, and Hall=Slavin are down as a fixes, I'm not so sure.
Simon Byrne vs Deaf Burke 1833 Heavyweight Championship and Bad Research Bare Knuckle 1722-1889: CyberBoxingZone and BoxRec internet sites are friendly with one another. Nobody makes any money and the hope is for sharing of research information. Because of my respect for BoxRec’s integrity, along with a Wikipedia link as the best source for this bout, their fictional account of the December 10th, 1810, bout between Molineaux and Cribb, must be academically challenged. BoxRec (2009): “Pierce Egan’s Boxiana is the source for the majority of this fight narrative.” This is not true. BoxRec’s narrative is nothing like Egan’s version. He goes on for a while like that too. I see Boxrec and CBZ as something of an elitist version of wiki. I appreciate what I find there, but it is just a jumping off point. A resource to get you started and give you a base for research.
The wiki part is also just as good as whoever filled it in, you can actually just edit it, you don't need special permissions or anything AFAIK, I've actually editted a few bits, I don't know of it being very actively moderated or anything, so I'd honeslty wouldn't trust beyond a place to go through to other sources. When you do your piece on Molyneux it might be worth fixing the fight account. The point I was making here was mostly how incomplete it still is, and I wasn't even meaning it so much as a critisism of boxrec (it's easy to find fights for one guy, harder to go through everything to make it as complete as possible), and more a point about people judging early fighters based on boxrec record. Martin Shaughnessy is another example, all 4 of his fights on boxrec he lost by KO, two against Tommy Ryan, who actually talked about Shaughnessy being a step up, and the first fight listed is described as his first KO loss and an upset, yet people would just see him as 0-1 and ending 0-4 and assume he was just some random local tough or something, and a total no hoper.
Only today I encountered an article about a Boxer (Sam Minto), who's story appeared immediately interesting to me and worth reading more about. It was speculated that Minto, originally from the Bahamas, had taken a boat from there as a young man and landed at the docks, in Hull, England - quite possibly penniless. He had then set about making a living and became a fighter in the traveling boxing booths. In addition, claims of 300+ professional bouts, with 27 bouts in three months, had caught my eye. I checked Boxrec to see what it might corroborate. On there, Sam Minto is listed as having had 81 bouts, with a record of 27-43-11. I'm led to believe some good research and a fair few artifacts have already been collated on Minto. I am hoping to make some inquiries in that general direction, soon.
Though I have seen the over 300 bouts thing claimed about a few boxers, I don't know if it's just one of those things newspapermen said. I think the is a bias for early fighters since a lot of their records are from newspapers, which will tend to record bouts against their more notable opponents, which they are then more likely to lose.
In a way, this is what attracts me to taking a closer look and finding out what evidence there is to support the story. I've seen the claims made from two seemingly credible sources, at the moment. But, I do think a healthy skepticism needs to be maintained. I suspect that there is also a set of criteria for what constitutes a fight, as being a legitimate professional boxing match and the verification of the same, as actually having taken place.
