Pascal vs. Bute plus a little on Dawson.

Okay, i've held off long enough. I won't go into it too deeply.

Credit to Pascal who i've trashed for soo long. Still not a fan of his, just something that i don't like about his fight game...There was a sequence when he had Chad on ***** street and he left his feet and leaped into Chad's lap like a private dancer. He was still the wild animal I thought he was, the difference was Chad's reaction too it. But credit to Jean, he stayed disciplined, knows his identity and maximised his attributes. My apologies Mickeal Phelps...i mean Jean Pascal. lol

The thing that gave Chad problems was the speed of Pascal, he got there first and Chad wasn't used to that. Pascal also throws punches from weird angles, however wild they may look and that nice Pascal mentality of "i'm gonna hit first" strategy made a real difference. Chad was fighting geriatrics and he was able to dictate the flow. So maybe someone who was athletic as him and with speed threw him off? Pascal's akward style and his speed is what won him the fight.

I have to believe he wins a re-match. But no excuses, he lost and has no one to blame but himself. Had he brought that "dawg" out then there's no headbutt. What the heck was up with Eddie Mustafa btw? I'm not into all the blaming the trainers, but was Eddie Jack "double the jab" Loew in disguise? I really wish Eddie would have yelled at him early, Chad is not the sharpest upstairs and needed some direction and urgency.

I love how people are calling him names though, but the kid went into the lions den which is almost unheard of in modern day boxing. Dawson has issues i admit, but we all agree that he reps the sweet science when he's at his best and there's still plenty of hope for him yet. I also don't wanna hear all these Carl Froch commercials because he beat Pascal and Chad didn't. Previous opposition hold the weight of a safety pin. Chad needs to bring a "dog" out and I thought the playbook should have been shreaded and he should have walked Pascal down like he did in round 11. I just hope he's not the next Zab "I slipped on the bathtub" Judah, he does worryingly also display some Jermaine Taylor mental traits. Oh God! lol

One unusually informative comment when watching the fight again (HBO version) Manny or it might've been Larry made a good point, he said "Pascal is not a phantom puncher, so if you keep throwing you don't have to worry about getting caught" or something along those lines. It's a great point because Pascal doesn't/can't counter you when you pepper him especially when he's on the ropes or covering up because his shots are so wide...Chad's passive aggressiveness performance reminded me why Calzaghe was so special.

To the future; Well Apparently Bute isn't willing to step up to 175 to fight Pascal so we might be getting the Chad rematch. If Pascal and Bute do square off in Canada's biggest ever fight lol who have you all got for that one? I do find it amazing that Dawson's camp got a rematch clause, but not an immediete one. atsch

In my view it's good news to hear that Bute may be unwilling to move up 7 and face Pascal at this point. I'm just hoping that Greenburg can put together another nice little package to make this rematch a no brainer seeing that there is some unfinished business from Chad Dawson's impressive 11th, similar I guess to Andrade/Bute 1 (I know i'm stretching it) lol. I have a good feeling seeing that Chad/Jean had a 30 day, pre-fight weigh-in so at least the pawns were promoted before endgame. The rook is of course Hopkins as JP seems to want it lol

Oh, some of you might have noticed an Avatar change, well i just thought someone more adept at 'sitting on the toilet' (that's what we used to call Pernell's game) was more deserving of gracing my Avvy. :good

 

I hear ya Slip. Cannot argue with anything there..as normal with your posts. I still like Chad although the excuses made me more happier he was defeated. I was just sitting on fence that fight...i like both guys. I'm glad Pascal had his day he deserved it. As you say Dawson should let them hands go. Bring out the big ''dawgs''!!! because he won't be countered. It was a entertaining battle and one that i think we should all enjoy rather then pick fault.

Dawson is a simple lad, but a lad who was brave enough to venture into unknown territory and also a guy that showed a different side and maybe learned one or two things that may make him better for the future.

 

Way another poll ?
[url]http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247312[/url]

 

Didn't see that Westy. Don't worry though my friend this will probabily end up more a Pascal/Dawson thread, just thought i'd putt a poll up to gauge the view of this wonderful forum. :good

 

Not seen the fight yet but how much of Dawsons "not getting off" and not maintaining his work is reluctance and how much is inability?

 

It can't be inability Gaz, because he does it in spots, i was in awe when i first saw this kids range of skills but couldn't believe what i was watching on sunday morning. His footwork was awful in this fight he was so flatfooted, but no one would say Chad Dawson normally has James Toney-esque or terrible footwork.

I just think it's more mental (perhaps an offshoot of his personality). We all know he displayed focus issues in most of fights it was just more prolonged here, mainly due to what Pascal was doing tbf. Dawson has a low ring IQ, see to me there's having the ability to throw off 6 piece combos, pivot and slip punches then there's being ring smart.

Ring smart is knowing what you are, using your attributes, fighting the right fight and being aware of the trajectory and changing moments within a fight and then adapting and changing accordingly. Basically seeing the bigger picture. Being smart is not always having the ability to throw of combos with sound technique. Terry Norris was a better boxer then Simon Brown, but he wasn't smarter. Pascal is more ring savvy and smarter then Chad even though he doesn't possess the same physical and technical gifts. It gave him an edge in a one off fight, but won't in a rematch. Just like Norris and Brown.

One thing that can't be argued is that Dawson doesn't have that killer instinct. The mentality to dig in, be an animal and take guys out when you need to. Someone like Cloud has that and it can take you a long way. It's really a concern to me that Chad has so many unanwered questions because it's not like Dawson is a youngster coming up, he's in his late 20's and been a champ for a while now.

 

Great post Slip! TBH I meant "inability" to cover the mental side as well. To me its either mental or possibly stamina concerns (thats probably reaching I know).

Its frustrating when you can see a fighter can do it physically but doesn't have the mental side to do it at the right times or to the maximum effect.

Funny you should mention Norris Slip. I was coming home tonight from work, was daydreaming and got to thinking what a great fighter he was to watch when he was on his game but that he didn't have that "X factor" when his physical skills wern't doing the job for him. I don't know what brought it into my head out of nowhere and now you've just mentioned it!!

 

I think Bute would be the favorite in this fight. He's a better boxer with speed and power himself and I still think Pascal is there to be taken out. Even Dawson was putting him under some serious scrutiny until the cut, Pascal was kinda hanging on for that final bell and looked hurt on a few ocassions if Dawson put his foot down and Dawson is no puncher.

 

Chad Dawson disappointed me in his fight against Pascal. Pascal simply executed his game plan much better than Chad Dawson...!!!

Chad Dawson had the ability to end this fight via TKO, but he never sustained any of his attacks, and he also was kind of feeling sorry for himself at times for no reason.

"I saw some metal weaknesses that need to be addressed"

Pascal has slightly better movement than Chad Dawson, and is faster at launching himself into attack mode.

I underrated this guy....

But all in all, Chad Dawson was clearly the better fighter once he started to let his hands go. His punchers are just delivered with better technique, and he actually had the ability to throw short hooks...and straight punches.

Something like that is far to technical for Pascal.

 

Stamina concerns is a real possibility, didn't like that goofy resistant thingy he was using before the fight either.

There's no way a guy with Chad's skillset should be lured into that type of fight and getting caught with so many bullrush looping shots. I'm still shocked lol I do think they underestimated Pascal's speed a bit. The first 4 rounds he looked confused. Saying that Mayorga did beat Vernon so these things happen.

Would it be too harsh to call Chad Dawson dumb do you think? We ain't called him dumb prior to this so because he lost a fight I can't go there just yet, right?. Also there's a rematch clause so the jury is still out. I was probabily a little harsh on Eddie too, he told him exactly the right technical instructions "keep your guard high, double the jab and work the body" but just lacked the intensity. I've seen decomposed bodies more offensive then Chad so you've got to read him the riot act. Tbf when he doubled his jab he had success. This whole blaming the corner when fighters lose is tired anyway. One knock on Chad was always focus and it all came to a head on this night.

I don't wonna rush to judgment, but Chad should be happy to have a Norris type of career (who to me is perhaps the second best Light Middle of all time behind The Hitman) Another thing that came out for me is that it shows us why fighters like Joe C Wales and 'money' Mayweather are so special. What we've got is an even playing-field Gaz. All these boxers have got issues, But I don't wonna sound like a hater, Pascal got some sh#t with him, ain't my type but it's still good sh+t lol.

One good thing to come out of it for Dawson is that this could be a watershed moment, it could be just what the Doc ordered for a guy of his mentality to get off his ass and work compubox. Another positive is it creates a rival, people like Roy Jones didn't really have the opponents to bounce of off (mainly because he was such a freak) but by losing you create THAT rival who takes your mantle and gets that buzz. Plus Pascal is a character/villain who is in exciting fights and sells tickets...something we need more of in boxing.

Speaking of rivalries and dim fighters, some have heard it through the grapevines (I stress it's not Brit ESB's residential gun jumping extroadinaire Rob Palmer lol) that Jermaine Taylor is on the comeback and targeting his fellow southerner Allen Green as a possible future opponent. Whats your view on that fight and pick on Bute vs. Pascal?

I say leave it out ole Jermaine Bad Intentions, stay on your pina coladas and fruity cocktails somewhere enjoying the easier side of this here rat race.

The creator of the 'bow n arrow' combo (or lack thereof) is 1 right cross away from wearing his favourite American football helmet with the facemask cut off. The kind that makes it easier to eat Jacobs cream c r a c k e r s and drink from a 4 oz milk carton with the bent straw. I'm sure you feel me, Gazo.

Oh 'Terrible' Terry was the truth when he was on his game, he just had issues too. I never really forgave him for beating an old Ray Leonard and you know all of us on this forum were separated at birth. :good

 

Let's see how Dawson comes back.

 

Yep, those excuses after the fight really bugged me, it sounds like he thinks he's Mayweather as well listening to some of his before the fight stuff.

You like and know your football, Mandanda (do a bit of coaching if i remember correctly) so i'm gonna take it there. Chad may just be like one of those footballers who has all the physical gifts and skills in the world, but never really puts it all together because he's not smart on the field (don't know what the technical football term is). He dribbles when he should be passing, crosses it when he should be running with it etc, their decision making is so off. This player is also more prone to mood swings, outside the field distractions and being affected by things like travel, away games/crowds etc (it's a bit of a generalisation but you get the picture).

Then you have another type of player who doesn't have near the same ball skills or physical gifts, but is much more effective and consistant mainly because he's smart, reads the game and knows his limits. This player always seems to make the right pass or be in the right position, but never tries to do a job which he hasn't got the tools for so always stays in his lane. He gives you a much better return then the other player, who may have those special 'moments' just due to his shire gifts but then goes into hibernation for a few games.

My knowledge of football is not good enough to give examples, but does what i say make sense? maybe an example could be someone like Teddy Sheringham, who never really had the pace or any outstanding skills, but always seemed to make the right decisions and be in the right position because he saw the whole picture (another one is Tim Cahill?).

An example of the other could be the Argentinian playmaker Ariel Ortega, who was being touted as the new Maradona, but never got to those heights because of his lack of football intelligents, bad decision making and inconsistantcy. Being an Arsenal fan (yes sadly i'm a closet gunner lol) I saw this kid a few years ago called Quincy Owusu who had some tricks and skills, could go past players, had a good touch, but then he'd fail to even cross the ball properly and was staggeringly inconsistant, suffice to say Wenger duly let him go.

I do realise though that i maybe jumping to conclusion a bit too early, i'm gonna give Chad the benefit of the doubt and see what he does from this point on, as plenty of great fighters have had these type of moments and been a lot better for it.

 

Dawson was given the benefit of the doubt too much pre-Pascal IMO

 

My next post in this thread was just going to point on that these problems with workrate and consistancy of work didn't begin with the Pascal fight. People on here (myself included) have been saying they were issues with Dawson for quite a while.

 

Yep, that's the worrying thing and i was guilty of it more then most TBH. I've always said he had focus issues, but was willing to look past it because he repped the sweet science so well. On the sly i was alarmed with that first Glen Johnson fight, but hey Glen gives everyone trouble and i treated that has Dawson's 'learning fight'. I'm not gonna start trashing him though, we've seen this before...remember Marvin Hagler was so close to being thought of as an 'opponent' at one stage in his career and there's plenty of examples throughout history. Let's just hope Chad takes the Marvellous One's route or be like Arnold Cream and age like fine wine and not that of Zab "not so super' Judah.