Prime ali was too fast for a prime tyson

Thread Closed.

 

So you make a thread asking for peoples opinons on the matter, and then proceed to call everybody that doesn't hold the same viewpoint as you stupid......


Speed wouldn't be a factor in this fight, be it handspeed or generalistic movement.

What would very likely be a factor is Ali's ability to take punishment, height/reach/straight punching, to adapt, and to work out of the clinches and smother Mike. Not all versions would be able to do this...

I agree that Mike had a better chin on a shot by shot basis, all of his stoppages were sustained beatings, where he was walking forward taking punches. Overall it goes to Ali, the mixture of chin/recovery/instinct.

 

As he does in all of his threads.

 

So...it sounds like we're narrowing Ali's prime down to a tiny sliver of time....what...the Cleveland Williams fight? If Cooper or Jones are too early, and Frazier too late, when was Ali's prime? that leaves us with what 64--67?

Tyson and Ali are two VERY fast fighters....Ali might've been faster by a hair, but his flashy punches were sometimes only glancing. Tyson would've been, in my opinion, probably the fastest guy Ali ever fought, with the possible exception of Holmes. Ali would use the first four punches of a combination to blind you, then nail you with the fifth. Tyson's punches were probably more accurate, in the sense that when they landed, you KNEW it.
I think Tyson would have an excellent chance of beating Ali. Excellent chance. Still I'd probably bet on Ali, because of his durability. But I think this is pretty much a pick 'em fight.
I will say this, with the exception of a few major victories, I often found Ali wins to be unsatisfying. There was often a lot of holding, a lot of rounds given to him without him connecting very cleanly. Most prime Tyson victories, however, were pretty resounding and impressive, Bonecrusher and Tucker probably the exception.
I think we should just concede that this would've been a pretty evenly matched, amazing fight to see. I could envision it going either way.

 

Ali had a great chin, but his chin could be cracked ... though, never sparked, he could get put down with a big punch, usually off balance, or in the middle of throwing his own punch. It can only be out of personal dislike for Tyson or a sycophantic need to worship Ali, that anybody would objectively say that Tyson's chin wasn't on Ali's level, if not better. I used to think this way, but during his career, it's clear as day that Tyson had an ATG chin in terms of his ability to take a flush shot.

Where Ali is superior to Tyson in ability to absorb punishment is overrall durability, which is chin, ability to withold punishment to the body and more importantly, powers of recuperation, employing tactics to gain more time in the ring, such as 'play-acting', clinching, defensive tactics. Ali knew how to get out of trouble to a higher degree than Tyson, but as far as chin goes, I think they both had ATG beards, but I wouldn't expect to see Tyson at any stage of his career dropped by the shots Ali was dropped by. At the same time, I'm not sure what would've happened if Tyson has his chin sparked by an enraged Foreman or Mr Shavers . Ability to withstand punishment is as much mental, as it is conditioning, as it can be a genetic higher threshold to pain.

Ali wouldn't have been too fast for Tyson ... faster, in my mind, definitely, but it is a whole host of other factors that made him superior, IMO, and if they had a 10 fight series, I'd imagine Ali winning at least 6 to 7 of the bouts.

 

If Henry Cooper and George Chuvalo can catch a prime Ali, then "Iron Mike" can definitely catch Ali. If not for Dundee cutting Ali gloves Cooper would of won against Ali. Now Mike confidence is something else. Tyson would have to slowly break Ali down and I don't think he would have the patience to do so. But if he was focused he could. A prime Iron Mike could take you out with a head shot but he also was destructive to the body.

 

If a past his best Patterson could make contact with Ali than Tyson at his best would land solid punches.

 

Actually the more and more I watch their fights I'm even more convinced that Tyson had the better chin.

1. Tyson walks forward constantly and when he gets hit he's moving forward amplifying the effect of the punch. Bruno, Ruddock, Lewis, Smith are all top tier punchers. Tyson showed that he can handle their power.

Ali also faced some big punchers himself but he was more susceptible to getting dropped by single punches. Ali used his savvy and style to keep him in a fight if he were hurt. He backpedals so if he gets caught with a big punch it won't be unnatural for him to take a backwards step so he can regain his senses. It has happened against many different fighters in his career.

Tyson doesn't take a backwards step because his style was never meant for that, so if he takes a punch and he's hurt he just deals with it. End of Story.


2. Ali has been dropped more frequently with single shots than Tyson has. Banks, Cooper, Frazier all dropped him with a single left hook. In each instance it was clear that he was hurt, why he was never really KO'd in his career has more to do with the fact that Ali knew how to recover when hurt, he knew what to do and his style has options. That is a reflection of his recuperative ability.

As for his physical ability to take a punch the edge goes to Tyson. It took alot to bring him down.

 

On the inside they are at least equal in speed. but Tyson's speed is in short spurts inside. the trouble for Iron Mike here is. Ali will move around alot, landing from outside with a constant jab in Tyson's face. A fustrated Tyson would finally bull rush in to try and exchange inside. but Ali was the master of tying a man up. and leaning on Tyson, draining his energy and adding to Mike's fustration.
A very tough match up for Tyson, Ali wont fall & Tyson wont be strong in the end to win on points. Ali by late TKO or UD.

 

Try reading that one dumbass.

 

every opportunity