I think a young Frank Shamrock in todays game , would be a threat to everybody in the world @185 without a shadow of a doubt , i mean that cannot be disputed , IMO he invented the term " well rounded " , he was drilling and using techniques back then that are drilled daily right now in top MMA establishments all over the world With the level of training available and the exposure MMA has , Frank would be a major force @185 If by magic a prime Shamrock is plonked into todays game against the current crop , and your talking the Shamrock that fought Tito suddenly pops up opposite Vitor or Anderson Silva ??? ..................................... logic would say his skill set would not be up to scratch
I think athletically, he was strong, quick and durable enough to fit in quite well in today's division I think guys with quick hands, ie Anderson and Vitor, who both have good defensive jits, would beat him. And catch-wrestling leaves you vulnerable to top heavy gnp'ers, and only Munoz & Cahel springs to mind there and I think Frank could beat them standing and neutralise him on the mat buy forcing both, especially Chael, to defend sub attempts from the bottom Is it too much of a stretch to say potentially top 5?
Why does catch wrestling leave you vulnerable to top heavy gnpers? I also imagine Chaels lack of power would have been a big disadvantage in that fight
Well generally speaking catch guys dont have the strongest guard in the world as their 1st instinct is too 'hook' (i.e quick submission) their opponents rather than work a guard methodically like an experienced BJJ guy, leaving them vulnerable to guys posturing up and punching them or leaving them out of position if they dont lock in a submission. A good example would be Josh v Cormier last night (Josh tried to hook the legs and arms, allowing Cormier to posture up and hit him rather than stifle his positions with his guard). Now Josh has good BJJ, better than Frank's, but he is not really known for his guard. So basically what Im saying is that the catch style will sacrifice a relatively safe position for a quick submission, and they dont practice guard as well as a Jits specialist. Sakuraba, Josh and Ken Shamrock have all sustained beatings whilst in guard, but they've also rolled out for numerous 'hook' style submissions, usually an arm/leg lock or a blood choke And Frank's guard was pretty poor, as seen in the Tito, Bas and even Renzo fights. So top heavy wrestlers pinning him down and punching him will always be a weakness using catch wrestling off your back Now that's just my understanding of it, and anyone is free to correct me if Im wrong, but I think Im pretty close in my interpretation
:good cheers mate nice little technical analysis there. I was reading up about catch wrestling before found it really interesting
Do you think he would be the best opponent for GSP if he was a ww today ? How he would be against the WWs of the current UFC ?
Yes His skills in todays game he would be just too limited IMO , remember these guys who specialise in certain area's are training all the other discilplines on a daily , weekly basis now as well , it would be too much to ask IMO Excellent analysis on CW and JJ there BTW !! Plus ..................... with the modern more strategic style of fighter , the guard is an essential part of a fighters arsenal and CW looks to have been and gone as an effective discipline at the top end of the sport
We are talking about the middleweight division here. Probably the most one dimensional division in the sport. I dont think Frank's stand up was awful either, but certainly no match for the Belfots & Anderson's. Id put Bisping in there as well as he's developed into one of the toughest guys to keep down in the sport. But more than capable of using it with his ground game and striking to outclass some of these fighters, who are, arguably, more one dimensional than Shammy was back in the day. Win or lose, I think Frank presents a significant problem for each of these guys, although out of this list I would probably make Yushin and Munoz slight favourites This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected
This history and execution of catch in MMA is fascinating. here's a good example of a hook finish, although is was a pure grappling competition. You can see form here how Frank would be vulnerable to strikes in an MMA fight if he didnt pull out the sub though [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6eNTcsA1e4[/ame]
He always had a good gameplan and followed it some solid standup and ground game dont think it would be to much of a stretch to say he would be top 5