Prime James J. Jeffries vs Jack Johnson

I also wonder about this. Jeffries a very strong fellow, yet I get the impression that Johnson more deliberately trained for in-ring strength, while with Jeffries the emphasis was more on stamina and getting quicker, taking strength as a given.

 

Do you think Jeffries functional strength was adversely affected by his lay off?
I can accept that his strength would ebb as the fight went on, but Johnson matched him from the beginning ,when Jeffries was still fresh.

 

Whether or not Jeffries was as strong in Reno as he was in his prime has been my big question about Jeffries vs. Johnson, and I think depends on how much Jeffries' weight gain, along with age, took out of him. He looked like he was in very good shape in 1910, but the amount of muscle mass at 29 vs. 35 is pretty different. Also taking into account his lifestyle during this layoff, it's very likely that he damaged his body in ways that a year or two of training can't fix.

 

Yes, in 1910, Jeffries didn’t have that toned, hard musculature he had in his prime.

Though possibly in the best shape he could be as at the time, Jeffries body still looked aged.

I think the smaller, more elite men Jeffries prevailed over in his prime should be factored in relative terms when gauging Jeffries’ best, prime strength.

Johnson combined both muscle and technique in the optimally effective application of his raw strength.

It is true that Johnson himself also prevailed over some smaller men also but I doubt that Jeffries ever demonstrated the absolute control and ease that Johnson did in manhandling his opposition - size notwithstanding.

Against Willard, it was naturally harder for Johnson to move his man - but he was still able to do so in the earlier rounds but not so dramatically.

Conversely, it was just as notable that Johnson was able to hold his ground even when Willard, the much larger man, was trying to push Johnson back.

Even if prime Jeffries did eclipse Johnson in strength, not sure what that would mean since Johnson always possessed far superior skills and would still be hitting Jeff far more often than Jeff was hitting him even when Jeffries might be shoving him around.

Johnson also had terrific stamina and could possibly see his own strength hold up better than Jeffries as the bout wore on - sans technique, Jeffries would be using raw strength and emptying his tank faster than Johnson in the grappling dept.

As seen in Reno, Johnson even knew how and when to safely allow Jeffries to push him back on occasion without trying to resist - meaning, it was only Jeffries expending energy pointlessly while Johnson conserved his own energy, remaining relaxed and calm.

Extrapolating Jeffries chances from the fact that he lasted 15 rounds in Reno might be somewhat misleading if one doesn’t think or accept that Johnson carried Jeffries and could’ve ended it much sooner.

I personally believe Johnson could’ve finished it in as few as 4 rounds.

If Johnson had fought to his full potential and did win the fight by KO in, say, 4 rounds - I wonder if people’s perception of prime Jeffries’ chances would be reduced.

OR, given the circumstances of Jeffries age and inactivity, as at 1910, does the complexion and outcome in Reno warrant little or no reference as any basis for forecasts as to how a prime vs prime match might’ve gone?

As an extreme example, there is nothing in the Holmes vs Ali bout, in its own right, that can be used and extrapolated on to reason how a prime vs prime match might’ve gone.

 

I really have no idea, 1908-1910 Johnson vs. 1903 Jeffries, which guy would be stronger right off the bat. I suspect 1903 Jeffries was stronger than 1910 Jeffries.