Prime Marciano V Tysons Challengers?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jan 21, 2016.

  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    The extra weight would only be detrimental to a fighter who relied on his conditioning more than any other ,it would just make him more sluggish, slow down an already less than quick man, and adversely affect his stamina .

    Tyson turned pro at 18 scaling 214lbs!

    Marciano never scaled that for a fight his entire career!
     
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    If i'm to entertain a fantasy fight between Hagler and Spinks I certainly would not assume Hagler comes in at 160 due to the fact he was always 160. I would assume he would put on 15 pounds of muscle and fight at LHW. Would he be as effective there? Probably not because otherwise he'd have been a LHW, but would he be effective enough to succeed at LHW, that's for another thread.

    If I was a fan of Rocky I would only consider fights against men his own size. I would not slow him down and pit him against naturally larger men like Tyson where he gets destroyed.
     
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    There's a reason why HW fighters today do not weigh under 200 pounds.

    It might make him slower, or he night retain his hand speed, fighters throughout history have retained speed as they move up in weight.

    As for stamina that is pure speculation. Plenty of fighter have been able to fight battles and wars for the full duration after moving up in weight.

    I don't know how good Rocky would be with a stone of muscle added to him. But I certainly think that's what he would do if he was to compete at HW today.
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Check out Orlin Norris listed weights. It is all anyone needs to know what Marciano would weigh in a more modern era.

    Norris weighed what ever he wanted. He was No bigger than Rocky and relevent against the biggest heavyweights.


    Norris was certainly no bigger than Rocky. In the 1950s Norris might have been a career light heavyweight.
     
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Might be the first time I agree with every word on one of your posts.

    Norris showed that he could comfortablya make the 190 limit for cruiser, but also showed he could bulk up correctly and be a force above 200.

    One wonders how good he'd have been with the durability, power and stamina of Rocky.
     
  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    That's got to be progress.:good

    Norris was a very clever boxer as he was, with Rockys power, durability and stamina Orlin could have been great!
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    That would be apples and oranges.
    Hagler was a career middleweight ,Spinks a Lhvy so two different divisions.
    Marciano and Tyson were both career heavyweights.
    Like you I see no advantages for Marciano in fighting a bigger ,faster, more polished version of himself in Tyson, but this thread is about Marciano fighting Tyson's challengers, not Tyson.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    If Charlie Goldman had thought Marciano would have performed better at a higher weight he would have ensured he did. Goldman had Marciano at the exact optimum weight for his major fights. that is irrefutable.
     
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Trainers do what is best for their fighter at that time, using the knowledge, training advances available at that time in order to produce what is required in order to be successful at that time.

    So Optimum weight really has a lot to do with what era the champion competes in.
     
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    But Hagler would not spot Spinks 15 pounds weight advantage just because he fought better as a MW.

    I am saying I believe Rocky, if born in the year Tyson was, would not weight 180 for Tyson's reign. I think he'd have been 205 pounds.
     
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    I am not refuting that.

    I am saying that today Rocky would not weigh 189-190. Any time after the 70's you'd be hard pressed to find HW men weighing less than 200 pounds and having any success.

    I think it more likely Rocky bulks up and fights at HW, than drains down and fights at LHW.
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Exactly the same sized boxer would have different optimum weight depending on the era.

    training trends of the day determine this and is linked to what it takes to be successful in a particular time.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    What has Rocky's weight in a modern era to do with the 1950's Rocky facing Tyson's challengers?
    N.B. Norris added 30lbs to his frame to fight Vitali Klitschko, he lasted just over a minute.:think
     
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    As far as I am concerned Orlin Norris beat Tony Tucker twice as well as Greg page, Oliver McCall, Jesse Ferguson and Renaldo Snipes. All naturally much bigger men.

    Yes Vitali dealt with the older Norris but let's not forget Norris had close fights that could have went either way with Golota and gave Henry Akinwande and Brian Neilsen all they could handle over the full schedule.

    If journeyman Norris was so out of his depth against modern heavyweights why did he have so much success against them?:think
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    At that time is the Marciano in question here, not some magically morphed time tunnel version. Why posters cannot either ignore the thread or answer the question that is actually posed in it is beyond belief!