Prime: Muhammad Ali .Vs. Larry Holmes

I prefer to watch Holmes than Ali. Sometimes, Ali bores the **** out of me.

I do like heavyweight boxers, rather than punchers. Holmes, Ali, Holyfield, Lewis, etc.

Holyfield's jab is the most underrated in heavyweight history.

 

Holmes in just about every aspect was underrated for decades. Now, for once, he is actually overrated. He is overrated in how vulnerable he was to being hit by right hands.

Had he been nearly as easy to hit with right hands as is often stated, there is no way he'd have made it through 75 fights with only being down in 4 of them, especially not with the big punchers that he faced through every portion of his career. In facing big right hand punchers, only being decked 4 times in 75 fights in nothing short of impressive. Shavers, Weaver, Mercer, Bey, Smith, Tyson, McCall, Norton, and Witherspoon were all big punchers with the right hand. Going by what is stated, Holmes should have been decked by at least half of them because they had hard right hands and were good at landing their right.

Holmes was never really timed with a right hand over a jab, Shavers decked Holmes as Holmes got sloppy (due to sheer domination) and lunged in with an uppercut from the outside. Snipes caught Holmes snoozing (again due to Holmes being dominant) and standing directly infront of him with no headmovement. Tyson got Holmes when Holmes's legs were pretty much gone and got him standing directly infront of him with a right hook.

I'm likely going to catch some crap for this, but I actually think Holmes was a more complete fighter than Ali. I'm not saying he was better, but he was more complete.

Holmes had the edge over Ali in:
Power
Jab
General fundamentals
Body punching
Uppercuts
Right hooks
General slugging ability

Ali had the edge over Holmes in:
Speed
Footwork
Defense
Combinations
Left hooks

I think they're about even in chin, stamina, ring smarts, straight rights (Ali's was quicker, Holmes's more powerful), and strength.

 

Holyfield could double his jab up with the best of them.

 

First of all we are talking prime Ali. No ropeadope. That Ali was just too quick for Holmes. Holmes jab would be nullified buy Ali's superior overall speed....Ali would be hitting Larry at angles and at the same time avoid punishment. Rounds would pass and Larry would show the effects of being hit with constant jabs and rights over that low left hand. Over 15 Ali could get a late round stoppage but the pick here is via a U decision....10-5 in rounds.

 

Ali; handily

 

Best vs. best? Easy, Ali. In his prime, he was better at everything than Holmes was.

Now, Holmes was a great fighter, don't get me wrong, and he has the stuff to pull an upset here. But, off of their best performances, Ali by decision.

 

gotta love ESB

 

i hope that you are joking...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubjVcmsUpxQ

 

Way

 

ali had the edge in hands speed, speed of feet , chin, stamina, combinations,confidence, defence, reflexes, move of head,intelligence, more accurate puncher, in the clinch he was better and i doubt that holmes did hit much harder than a peak ali. 67

 

It's a very tough fight ... No KO ... I actually think the sharper punching Holmes with the better jab might win this one .. he was more aggressive and just meaner and just as mentally tough ...

 

Lets be real here, Ali was slurring speech and had early onset parkinsons by the time he met up with holmes not just in the ring but even in sparring. Joe Frazier really ****ed him over in that last fight. Larry claims he had beat Ali in the 70s, but Larry was also knocked down by Isaac and snipes and shavers, knocked down in the ring by guys who I seen his trainer boot out the gym for knocking larry out. ali fought the shavers at his best and whipped him even when he was old and past prime, larry almost got killed by him. Larry struggled to beat a 40+ year old Norton who ali beat twice. I don't see Larry winning 1 in 1000 battles. He is the same height, but with slower hands, and roughly similar reach and worst endurance. He has not a single advantage over a prime Ali. He was knocked out by Tyson and had trouble with 7 +fighters when he was still in his prime despite ducking the best guys of the 80s. When he did fight the best fighters of his era, he either loss or almost loss every time (spinks-twice, tyson-knocked out, norton-barely won despite how old norton was and ducked the rematch, shavers- got laid out by him and was lucky to get up). None of his wins are ever that impressive. Even the Cooney fight, when you take away the 2 low blow deductions, Cooney was WINNING the fight. Every time Holmes had to step up to far inferior opponents he came damn close to losing, and I am sure alot of those decisions like witherspoon or williams could have easily gone the other way. And he also was outjabbed by williams who jabbed his eye shut. Ali who was notorious for jabbing eyes shut and cutting guys up would have tore up Holmes face and jabbed his eye shut. I mean if Ali can cut up liston's face (with a far better jab and harder puncher with longer reach and shorter in height which is an advantage because it means he is HARDER to hit than Holmes) or shut up ernie terrel's eyes or cut up quarry. He can do the same over 15 to holmes when far inferior fighters did it. Holmes only took the spinks fight because he thought it would be easy (beating up a small guy, for money) and he got whipped twice. If Williams could outjab holmes or witherspoon could push holmes to the limit like that, I have no doubt that Greg Page would punish him (hence why he ducked him) or Pinklon Thomas would jab his face shut. I don't think any of these guys hold a candle to Ali, Ali'd utterly destroy him.

 

I see you've shown yourself up again junior with your lack of knowledge. It really beggars belief.
I'm Ali's biggest fan but in my opinion and even in his prime Holmes would be one of his toughest fights, Holmes to me was a great fighter, but beat the young pre 67 Ali? Probably not although I wouldn't rule him out, I think Ali would just have too much speed and agility for him.

 

I agree with Tommo. I actually think Holmes was more well-rounded, and I would pick him by decision if the judges are honest.