Prime v Prime - Norton wont trouble Ali.

You have to watch the full fight to fully understand the circumstances. Ali was wincing in pain and running out of gas. Norton’s body shots and right hands were doing damage. Norton had a strong close in the12th round. Ali's corner had a look of concern after the final bell sounded. Dr. Fernie Pachecho was in the ring carefully looking over Ali. Ali wasn't celebrating at all, or acting like he won the fight. He was in a bad way. If this was a 15 round fight, Norton might have scored a knockdown or possible TKO. Hence, something dramatic might have happened.

What if the first Ali vs Frazier fight was only 12 rounds? There would be no knockdown.

 

Yeah but Frazier was beating the **** out of Ali too, in their first fight. Not just his swollen jaw but also his ribcage, liver and hips.

If Ali-Frazier I went 11 rounds, you'd probably be just as convinced that he wouldn't have survived a 15 round distance.

But he did. And i think he would've against Norton.

 

A prime Ali would have beaten Norton, probably 9-6 or 10-5 IMO. Norton troubled Ali, but you are right, when he was up and moving - Norton had a lot of trouble with him.

I always thought Ali looked pretty bad in all three Norton fights, partially because of Kenny, and partially because fight 1 = broken jaw, fight 3 = shot, fight 2 = couldn't keep up the movement because of his age.

A peak Ali takes Norton without TOO much trouble.

 

Norton just had the style to give Ali trouble, a bit of a rythym breaker because of his weird style, an old Archie Moore landed some good ones on Ali with his crab defence and Norton had that crab like defence. Ali did not have the power to rock Norton like every puncher Norton faced

 

Excellent post

 

Believe it or not at the end of 12 rounds, Norton hurt Ali more than Frazier did. Ali was not out of gas vs Frazier in the 15th. He was running on fumes vs Norton at the end of the 12th. Ali's jaw was broken / sore, he was tired, and Norton was ripping hard body shots. Ali was in such a bad way, he did not taunt Norton late in the fight, and based on Norton's style, could not clinch him much either.

Frazier had a huge 11th round vs Ali, but by the end of the 12 Ali had his legs back. By the end of the 12th vs Norton, Ali had less. You could say Ali did not train hard enough for Norton. Maybe so. I just think had this fight been 15 rounds, Norton does something extra.

Something extra could be defined as a knock down, a round that could be scored 10-8 without a knockdown, a corner stoppage, or perhaps even a TKO win for Norton.

 

One fundamental problem Ali had against Norton was he was an exasperating headhunter. No body attack which would have opened Norton up much more readily than simple, long, right-hand leads to a cocooned head.

In his prime, Ali could fire rapid-fire shots to the body followed by out-of-nowhere left hooks to the head that would have shaken Norton up.

In his prime, Ali would chart a much more effective fight plan on his toes, not the mano-a-mano, flat-footed, left-right style that played to Norton's strengths.

 

I don't think Ali could have kept up that pace for too long even in his prime. Norton cut the ring off better than anyone I've ever seen, even though Ali was as fast as ever. So Ali was never really safe in there, even while dancing, and that tires a man. In his prime he could probably have danced for a couple of rounds more, but eventually he would tire and then Norton would have given him a lot of trouble.

Ali would still get an unanimous decision though.

 

I agree with you, Bill. Prime champion Ali never showed evidence of coming in in subpar shape, product of underestimating his opponent.

He would bag enough rounds on his toes, something Norton never solved as late as Round 15 of their 3rd fight, to relatively cruise to victory.

Of course Norton would not go quietly and have his moments, but no more.

Regarding Norton stopping Ali in their first fight had it been a 15 rounder, I seriously doubt it, simply because in that case Ali would have trained for 15 rounds and have enough in the tank for it.

 

All you are really saying Janitor is he was countering of Ali's jab, classic boxing technique.

 

Norton wouldn't trouble Ali as much, but he would still take up to five rounds tops in losing a Unanimous Decision, Prime vs Prime.

 

"Prime" Ali would have probably gotten stopped by Norton because Norton was stronger and a harder hitter than Jones & Cooper :yep , or at least lost more convincingly 2 Norton .
Just like this very same forum picked d "eroded" Ali 2 stop d very same Doug Jones who actually beat Ali .
"Fast" Ali was never as tough as d mid 1970s Ali .