Question for those who were around in the 70's...

Well, at the time he did state that he had no desire to go and kill people that did him no harm, "other poor brown people," is at least how I remember it.

 

Oh Yeah, No doubt he was full of baloney, But his official reason to the Gov't. was based on Religion. When his Religious beliefs were really put to the test, He took no action. Ali had many close & private conversations with Malcolm X. Ali knew that Elijah Muhammed was morally not following the teachings of Islam. & about the corruption within the Nation of Islam itself. He could have spoken out in support of his friend Malcolm X. Instead he said nothing. Malcolm X was ostricized by the nation of Islam, then eventually murdered...

 

I tend to think he was just a young, ignorant guy thrust into the spotlight and trying to make heads or tails of the issues of the day, also of the people that were trying to use his celebrity for their own ends. It was just recently that I've heard that Muhummad felt lousy about his disloyalty to Malcolm X. Maybe you know, but he carried either a photo of him or a gift or some other reminder of their friendship around with him for years. Athletes, sooner than even rock stars or actors can achieve fame before their life experiences have a chance to catch up.

There is a tape that I've made reference to before on this forum, of Ali out on the steps of some college building in the South at the time of his refusal of the draft. He is met by reporters and cameramen and a group of college students chastising him for his stance against the war. If you haven't seen this and you're interested you should try to find it; I'm sure it's available on some on-line cite. Ali was a showman, an actor and a carnival barker, that is true. But if what he said to those frat brothers was just baloney, I'd be very surprised. It looked like heart-felt passion and anger, his words, as on the money as his straight right hand, left no doubt in me then or since that he felt strongly about the war.

The ****** wrench in all of this is of course that Ali never would have held a rifle in his hands in his tour of duty. Probably he was aware of that and either didn't trust the government not to make an example of him, or he was so angered by his reclassification from 4f to 1A that he decided to spit in their eyes regardless.

 

Yes, That is very interesting. I will try & find that. Could it have been possible Ali could have made more of a statement from within the Military? If he went in and used the Media to denounce the War, That could have been a huge Headache for the Gov't. How could they have Jailed or silenced Ali for speaking his mind, While at the same time be over in Vietnam fighting Communism? Oh, I don't know Volatile Times I guess...

 

You're suggestion is equally interesting. But to fight the system from within, the military system, could be again we are asking too much of a guy who all evidence to the contrary was only human, and with all that "friendly fire," lurking about? Volatile times indeed, a time of much disagreement and conflict Stateside as well. The kind of time I never thought I'd see again in this country, but you know that saying about, if you live long enough you get to see everything twice? Damn, I'm getting old.

 

Interesting. I was under the impression that Liston was not very much liked, seen as a bad, con figure.

What was your opinion on the subject?

 

I was 31 years of age in 1971 and I was at the fight with my wife. We paid 50.00 each for our tickets and had nice seats. I still have the stubs. It was the greatest fight in terms of matching the build up. Shortly before the fight around January, I went up to the Concord hotel in Liberty N.Y. to watch Frazier train. Was he ever intense and in great shape. He actually had to break training camp at the Concord because it was too cold, snowy and icy. He relocated to somewhere in Florida. I was rooting for Frazier for two reasons. I liked his style and I did not like the fact that Ali refused to go into the military. I must say this though, I went down to Dear Lake Pa. training camp where Ali trained to fight Floyd Patterson and got to talking to Ali. What a really nice guy. Very genuine. Interesting side point, Floyd Patterson was also at Dear Lake that day. Floyd flew down in his own Piper cub. He was a pilot. They both trained there that day and of course, the press was there as well. Talk about a really great guy, they didn't come any nicer than Floyd!.

 

Here's something I always wanted to know... Who was on the undercard??

 

I dont remember who was on the undercard. I looked at my ticket stub thinking it might be on there. I haven't looked at that stub for years. I said the seats were 50.00 each, they were actually 20.00 each Sect 422 Row D seats 1 and two. Another thing I forgot and was surprised by was that it was a monday night.

 

I believe there were two 6 rounders prior to Ali vs Frazier I as follows:

Danny McAlinden def. Rahman Ali
Jim Lee Elder def. Charlie Harris

Does that sound familiar to those that went or watched??

 

Rahman Ali was of course the older brother of Muhammad Ali.

I seem to remember from a Jose Torres book that Ali was watching his brother’s fight on closed circuit TV, whilst they laced his gloves on in the change room. I think Torres noted that Ali was pretty disappointed at his brother’s loss, and it of course occurred just prior to his own match with Frazier.

As a pro Rahman won 14 matches, lost 3, and had one draw.

 

What you say about Liston is true, but he was still the sentimental favorite against the then Cassius Clay. Ali once said he based his performance persona on the pro wrestler Gorgeous George. I would point out that George sold out arenas across the country with people who came to see him LOSE. No one cared who his opponent was. They wanted to see George get beat. The same happened to Ali, but he was perceptive in seeing that all this made him a great draw. Dempsey was viewed as a villain through most of his career also.

 

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Truth is the undercard was pretty much a non-factor. The buzz leading up to the main event was the undercard. Celebrities all over the place. Everyone was interacting with everyone regarding the main event.