Quitting

But we're not judging him against "what we would do". Or "what's the sensible thing to do".

We're judging him against what champion fighters actually do, and what they have to do to get there generally.

 

It is easy to say, but I just wish he got up at 6 or something and quit with his eyes so that the ref could wave it off/get the doctor in. Allowing yourself to be counted out like that is gonna be hard to come back from

 

Yea I get you it’s just eye injuries are a different kettle of fish IMO. He could have carried on but suffer a potentially career ending or altering injury. Quitting to me is just stopping because the other guy is beating you up or whatever. Like Khan quit against Crawford because he knew he was getting knocked out and didn’t fancy it. I just think it’s harsh to label someone a quitter when it comes to injuries like that. If you can’t see out of it and you’ve got a 6ft6 bloke pounding it with the jab you will panic about losing your vision. He just panicked and it freaked him out. Frampton can say it on live tv but did Frampton ever experience a similar injury or situation in his career? It’s easy for him to say then.

 

Not to mention it was for a British, Commonwealth ans European title.
Do fans just expect anything under a ABC world title belt to be a knock over job.
DDD may try to come again, imo he did quit but only he knows why the eye was terrible and he had been getting peppered over and over again for many rounds. it may have severe damage and if that's the case can you blame a 23 year old novice from saving himself if the corner were not willing to pull him out.
But everyone should be giving both guys credit for getting it on without PPV in a pandemic.
Joe is very underrated people call him a plodder ect but he is an Olympic medalist and has much better pro wins than DDD.
It was a very competitive fight and a perfectly timed fight for both, maybe DDD should have had 1 more against a top 15 - 20 guy.
JJ is clearly a top 10 guy and maybe a top 5. I personally think he beats Wilder and Whyte. Wilder with pressure and Whyte because he is pony.

 

I think you say it right when you say "He just panicked and it freaked him out".
That's the point.
He has a long way to go as a fighter if he's prone to panic and freaking out.

 

Fury could have easily took the knee vs Wallin.

 

Let’s not powder coat it.

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Good post, I can't disagree with the points about brave corners but that's not what happened with Dubois last night.


What I will say about Dubois is.. if anybody goes back and watches that BT broadcast again, just listen to the Dubois corner between rounds.

There is no technical advice like "double up the jab, left hand , right hook" or "move to your left, right hand over the top" type stuff.

It was a mental battle.. something like "this is what it's all about, this is the fight game" after a few rounds..

Why do you need to explain to a professional boxer, a commonwealth champion who is fighting for the British and European title that a few rounds of jabs is what the fight game is all about.

Dubois wasn't getting battered, he was getting jabbed and his corner were instantly concerned about his mental state and confidence.

It was like the corner knew this was far more of a mental batttle than a physical one from early, very early and that's seriously worrying.


I have no problem with a fighter taking a beating or being in a seriously tough fight and "having the fight knocked out of him".. there are fine lines, there really are.. between actually having nothing left and thinking you have nothing left and there is a fine line between having the fight knocked out of you and quitting.

Your mind can play tricks on you if things are not going your way, when things get very tough, you can doubt yourself, you start to feel every punch and it's so so tough, this is why we all pay to watch boxing and admire fighters because they have something we don't, they have a spirit, a mentality that your average person just can't comprehend.

i can't and won't blame the corner for last night for the finish, the advice was poor but the finish was all Dubois.

Dubois wasn't taking right hand after right hand and being smashed around the ring, sure he was jabbed to pieces but he wasn't dropped, he wasn't rocked, he was just being outboxed.

Also, If the corner pulled Dubois out after 7 or 8 we would be slaughtering the corner this morning, saying they have taken away this young mans unbeaten record, didn't allow him to prove himself, all fighters go through that gut check moment, we would be pointing at scorecards and saying he was winning and his corner robbed him.. and all suggesting a change of trainer.

Dubois had a swollen left eye, he wasn't cut, there was not blood running in to the eye, sure the eye looked like it closed but we've seen far worse, far far worse and fighters arguing to continue or finishing a fight.

Dubois just couldn't pass his first real gut check, he failed, right now and maybe in the future this is just him but in my opinion he hasn't got what fighters need to go to the top.

For me, last night, we saw the old "bully getting bullied", Dubois is fine dishing it out to overmatched opponents but when he couldn't shift or dent his opponent and things got very tough, he turned around, took a knee and sat it out.

This will haunt him for a long time, I don't think he realises just how much this will hang over him, fellow professionals are calling him a quitter and that's probably the worst thing that can happen. I'm sure Warren and his team could brush off the Twitter Mobs slaughtering him, it happens to anybody that gets beat but when fellow pros are calling you out, it's difficult to deny it and it will be even more difficult to get over it.

 

I think the most shocking and damning thing from last night is that Mike Tyson has still got quicker hands and feet than two current top heavyweight contenders.

 

The fight between Bradley and Provodnikov springs to mind for me where Bradley put it all on the line against a teak tough brawler because of the criticism heaped upon him for being risk averse and not offensive enough in previous fights, especially the criticism he received after the first Pacquiao fight.

This kind of criticism will either swallow up DDD and his career will never amount to much or he'll come back with a vengeance.

Much of this will depend on those around him. I certainly feel there's better trainers and coaches out there who would jump at the chance of having ago at rebuilding Dubois, after all, there's plenty to work with. A decent sports psychologist wouldn't hurt.

Froch of all people felt he needed to add that little something to his game and it definately worked for him.

 

Who was the last fighter to win blind in one eye?!

 

What good is that when you can't beat the likes of Danny Williams and Kevin McBride?

There's more to boxing than quick hands and feet.

 

Cant say i blame the cornermen. It was a close..ish fight and with dubois having power...would have been premature to stop it imo. I dont really see it as a quit either.

Think the reality was in hindsight dubois was put in against an ex olympian silver medalist...who he wasnt ready for. It was his lack of experience/ability that was the problem. Joyce hit him all night in that eye with the jab...something dubois didnt know how to avoid. Eventually that will break you down regardless of who you are.

Dubois lacked the experience to see through a fight....lacked the experience/ability to stop joyce landing with thejab at will. Thats the problems he has to now fix. Not the heart imo. Needs to dust himself off....and learn how to box/fight over the next few years. Still got potential at 23...but the reality of it is...hes a million miles away from real top level at this stage. The real hard work starts now.

 

I don't know who was the last.
Dubois was ahead on two of the score cards. I thought the fight was even. Others have Joyce ahead.
I didn't see any round that would have been scored 10-8. This wasn't one-sided at any stage.

I've seen guys fight with swollen eyes hundreds of times.
"Oh, but they usually lose" isn't a good excuse to quit trying.
Not if we want to measure them against good fighters.

 

Huge difference between swelling, which he had from early on, and going blind.