McLarnin was one helluva fighter. One of us owe him an article, McGrain. I have not done an exhaustive list and have really only put alot of time in the top ten. I'd place him safely somewhere in the top 25. His record is something to behold: He beat a just-startin-out Fidel LaBarba, and Pancho Villa when he was about 17 years old. Also beat Sid Terris, Jackie Fields, Petrolle, Mandell, Ross, Canzoneri, Ambers.... that's a who's who and all before he was 30. He was considered one of the hardest punchers under the big boys after his one round drubbing of Young Corbett who hadn't been stopped in 13 years. This content is protected That's Al Singer on the left with the "Irish Lullaby" (one of my favorite all-time nicknames). Jimmy hated the names he was given after he was wrecking almost every top Jew in the division... names like the "Hebrew Scourge" and the "Jew Beater" were not his cup of tea. He was a good man, a credit to the Irish who'd go golfing with Bing Crosby and Bogie after retirement. Died at 96. That was a tough old bird. ...hell, in the 30s three fighters -an Irishman, a Jew, and a curly-haired Italian were called the "Holy Trinity" ...who can name them?
I think Barney Ross is a lock for top fifteen, and he's in mine at #10. His numerical record for the era is astounding, and he fought a **** load of good and great fighters. Even the last fight of his career was a tremendous effort which he should have been proud to have put forth.
I like it when people don't write lists that conform to the usual, but Chavez over Whitaker simply cannot be justified in any other way than you simply liking him better. There is no rational basis for that call whatsoever IMO. That aside, it's a nice list. Would be interesting to see an extended version.
I think that Bill Butcher and anyone else with a list that is based only on a limited amount of fights/fighters seen or basically one era should qualify their list with a disclaimer. Bill qualified his as to fighters that he has seen...
TBH, its Chavez & Whitaker that I have the most trouble splitting, I like both a lot too, I dont like Chavez miles better or anything... I think their careers were comparable, Whitaker won their actual fight clearly IMHO & has the 4 weight thing compared to Chavez 3 weights but Pea looked like **** vs Vasquez & Chavez failed vs a clearly superior fighter to Vasquez in Pea himself going for his 4th title. I think (know) Chavez was more past his prime than Pea when they fought - their next fights all but prove this point - & Im sure Chavez does much better at both their bests at 135, whether that would be enough to completely reverse Pea`s clear victory I dont know, maybe, maybe not. I have no problem whatsoever with Whitaker being above Chavez, I almost had it that way myself but I do disagree that its crazy or absurd (or something similar) to have JCC above Whitaker, its close either way.... the 2 top men of their time, very close between them IMHO. :good
I said "not too far from his prime" and I'll stick with that. Most of these losses were before his fight with Hagler and he was hardly a shot fighter when he met him.
That's a really really strange point to make when attempting to explain why you have Chavez higher. Considering it's the only point you mention regarding specific fights, is that Chavez looked bad losing to Whitaker while Whitaker didn't look great beating Vasquez really a significant point to you re why you have Chavez higher than Whitaker? I really don't understand the point at all to be honest.
You dont really have to understand it, that wasnt the only point I made either, there was more... I know you find it easy to split Pea & JCC but I dont, as Ive already said, I find their to be nothing between them career wise & its unfair to automatically give Pea the edge because of their H2H match when Whitaker was clearly closer to his prime. I thought Chavez had a tougher job going for his 4th title than Pea did because Pea & Chavez are far superior to Vasquez... thats all... thats why I dont hold Pea`s 4 weight thing as a major point scorer when comparing him to Chavez, I look at the broader picture... Chavez would likely have beat any other WWT that night other than Whitaker IMO but he went straight for his rival p4per. :good
1.Robinson 2. Duran 3. Armstrong 4. Ali 5. Pep 6. Pea 7. Ezzard Charles 8. Jofre After that I have a clutch of guys (Hagler, Arguello, Monzon, Leonard, Carlos Ortiz, Fighting Harada, Barney Ross, Evander Holyfield, Archie Moore, B-Hop, **** loads) and they are all hard to rank conclusively after that. For the record; post-war only for me and mainly based on resume, but if I feel it's close I look at each particular fighter; i.e these guys are pretty close in resume but I feel this guy was better skilled, or this guy may not quite have a good a resume as this guy but he was really powerful. There are too many variables to ever produce a 'final' list you are happy with IMO. But top 8 I am pretty happy with.
11-15 depending on what contraption of a list i come up with on that particular day.....great, but just outside the top 10
I'd be interested to see your top 10 bud. I can't see even 10 pre-war guys you could rank over Duran.
My reasons for having Whitaker higher are: - He fought and beat better fighters, so better resume - He fought and beat better fighters and looked like a better fighter doing it, so better fighter in terms of ability/h2h - He won their fight so convincingly that I can't conceive of Chavez completely reversing the result a couple of years earlier - He won more world titles in more weight divisions What are your reasons for having Chavez higher?