Rate Patterson's wins over Cooper and Machen.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rollin, Jan 8, 2026.

  1. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2021
    Messages:
    4,483
    Likes Received:
    7,129
  2. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    15,595
    Likes Received:
    9,177
    Good wins. Not great. Machen was ready to slide with the exception of the Quarry bout he was past his best. Cooper was coming off his second loss to Ali and was rough customer but always bearable. On a scale of 1-10 they both a 7 for me.
     
  3. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    58,589
    Likes Received:
    13,740
    ,
    !
     
    SixesAndSevens likes this.
  4. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    25,278
    Likes Received:
    19,510
    I rate them highly.

    After Machen lost a 12-round decision to Liston in the summer of 1960, he'd gone 13-1-1 leading up to the Patterson fight in 1964.

    The one loss was on points to Harold Johnson. The draw was against Cleveland Williams. Machen's 13 wins came against an assortment of contenders and non-contenders, including Doug Jones, Mike DeJohn, Brian London, and Wayne Bethea.

    Machen was ranked #6 in the world by the WBA when he fought Patterson. He was only 31. And you could argue that he deserved to be rated higher than Patterson at that moment.

    Because, during the same time frame, 1960 to 1964, Floyd managed only a modest 3-2 record. He'd won the rubber match with Ingo, beat Tom McNeeley and Santo Amonti, and was demolished in one round twice by Sonny Liston, who Machen went 12 with.

    Machen was holding his own or beating better fighters during that period before the Patterson match in 64 than he was when Floyd was champ, and Machen was his top contender (when Machen couldn't beat Zora Folley in two tries or even last a round with Ingo.) In fact, Machen moved up into the top five after the Patterson loss.

    And, in his next fight after Patterson, Machen challenged for the vacant WBA heavyweight title against Terrell.

    So, it was clearly a fairly evenly matched fight, which Floyd won.

    The Cooper win, IMO, is also impressive because Floyd actually knocked out Cooper. Not many people did. Most (like Ali) stopped Cooper on cuts. Floyd put him away.

    I rate them among Patterson's best wins. Maybe only the wins over Ingo and Bonavena are bigger.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2026
  5. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    3,553
    Machen was almost shot. He was a cocaine user in the early 60s and he was trying to resurrect his career after suffering a mental breakdown which may have been partially the result of his drug use. I don't think he ever came close to returning to the level he had achieved before the breakdown. For me, the Patterson fight was the swan song of his tenure as a top contender. The Quarry fight was the old story of a youngster (Quarry) being still a little green and somewhat intimidated by Machen's past reputation. He sat back and allowed Eddie to dictate the pace of the action by coasting and using his tricks of sitting on the ropes and fighting in flurries when Jerry could have employed the advantages of youth and pressured Machen.

    Cooper's best years as a top contender were also behind him. He kept his career alive after losing to Ali in 1963 by holing up in England, avoiding George Chuvalo, fighting fringe contenders, and losing to a few of them like Roger Rischer and Amos Johnson.

    So I don't rate Patterson's wins as any great shakes, but they did serve the purpose of rehabilitating his image after the Liston and Ali losses.
     
  6. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    25,278
    Likes Received:
    19,510
    At the height of his delusions, Machen drew with Cleveland Williams in 1962. He was hospitalized shortly after that, but only briefly.

    Saying he was past it simply isn't true. Just because Ike Ibeabuchi was off his rocker in 1999, that didn't mean he couldn't fight anymore. Ike also knocked out Chris Byrd that year.

    Machen climbed in the ratings after his performance against Patterson. And it was an evenly matched fight. Machen even appears to hurt Patterson just before the final bell.

    One judge had Machen-Terrell for Ernie by only three points after 15. And Machen beat Quarry after that, too. (Patterson didn't.)

    Lots of people tend to gloss over that win for Patterson. But Machen was more consistent leading up to the Patterson fight than Eddie was when he was the top contender for Floyd when Floyd was champ.

    It was an excellent win by Floyd over a top contender.
     
  7. McCallumsJab

    McCallumsJab Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2025
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    604
    I tend to think it indicates that Patterson was the 3rd best between Marciano and Frazier. There's obvious Terrell who has an argument
     
  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    25,278
    Likes Received:
    19,510
    As does Jimmy Ellis, who defeated Quarry, Bonavena, Martin, Chuvalo, and Patterson. Ellis probably moreso than Terrell.
     
  9. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    3,553
    Carry on!
     
  10. McCallumsJab

    McCallumsJab Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2025
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    604
    Fair argument but Patterson is past his best at that stage and didn't he have a damaged lower back after the Ali fight?
     
    crixus85 likes this.
  11. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2017
    Messages:
    17,460
    Likes Received:
    12,892
    I always learn something here
     
  12. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2017
    Messages:
    17,460
    Likes Received:
    12,892
    Patterson was robbed
     
    crixus85 likes this.
  13. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2024
    Messages:
    7,107
    Likes Received:
    6,160
    Folleys also got a case.
     
  14. RockyValdez

    RockyValdez Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    656
    Not for being ranked above Patterson.
     
    crixus85 likes this.
  15. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2024
    Messages:
    7,107
    Likes Received:
    6,160
    He beat Machen and Patterson didn't fight him. Hes less accomplished then Patterson and Machen. He only won 3 12 rounders. But the idea Folley was the best HW during Pattersons reign was never really debunked. And he has a better claim to that then Machen.

    Folley is high up on various statistical leaderboards with 69 wins and 44 KOs. Especially among post WW2 HWs.