Ray Arcel on Hagler - Hearns.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JohnThomas1, Jun 16, 2018.

  1. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Mag, you're the one who lied. And there wasn't any reason for you to do so which confounds me why you DID lie in the first place.
     
  2. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No problem. But he lied and didn't have to. Knowing who he was, I asked him if he was indeed that person, and he lied when he said no. It's that simple. I'm just calling him on it.
     
  3. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You don't have to do a damn thing if you don't want to. But you lied and you didn't have to.
     
  4. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hagler was hurting Hearns throughout, not the other way around. Tommy looked like he was ready to go at the end of all 3 rounds, not the other way around.
     
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  5. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    12 seconds? you're griping over 12 seconds?

    look more closely

    just because you go in defensive mode doesnt mean you're hurt. it happens all the time.

    l admit Hearns gained momentum in that one exchange and poured it on, but Hagler was far from hurt. He simply stymied Tommy's attack and then went back on the attack

    and then surprise of surprises, back Tommy up!

    Had he been hurt, Marvin would have concentrated on moving away the way Tommy did when he was hurt in the first Leonard fight
     
  6. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    i dont see Hagler's legs wobbling. You're imagining things
     
  7. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't see what I said as excuses for Hearns and Leonard. What excuses did I make so I can clarify.. It is not as simple as they didn't train.. He loses to a great fighter and he simply says he was not in shape. Come on. That is ridiculous.
     
  8. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I explained it more than I had to and still you stick on this. who cares. I don't. I don't apologize for that and I never would. I explained it to you. Go back and read it. You have to respect people's reasonings on things otherwise this looks like an agenda. This is a boxing message board on the net. None of us have to say anything about who we are and owe anyone explanations. I talk about boxing and I have been honest with my opinions on that. If this were a message board about who we are and our lives, that would pertinent. Otherwise it isn't.
     
  9. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You are the one who said he went right back at him. 12 seconds is not going right back at him. Count that out. He was hurt, his legs were wobbly. Someone asked when exactly was he hurt and I gave the exact moment 31 seconds on that video.. and even the moment I thought his hand was hurt 55 seconds in the video. and when Hagler was cut, which I forget but it was 1:19 left in the round by the top rank clock. Hagler was hurt. He regained but he was hurt. That punch would hurt anyone. It had to have hurt him the way it landed and the way his head was hit.. But he took it well. and a punch did not land sideways which would have added to it. The straight punches allowed Marvin to absorb better and to put more pressure on Hearns hand. although that punch at 55 seconds in was a wild punch by Hearns.
     
  10. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You dont owe anybody any explanations. But you lied and didnt have to, end of. Your credibility is shot. You say youve been honest about your boxing opinions? How could anyone believe anything you write anymore when you've been caught in a lie when you didn't have to lie?
     
  11. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well sure that is an opinion of yours. But Hagler is hit, and his right leg dips. Kurupt says that he was saying wow. he can punch so he backed off. Could be, but his legs are still shaky and he goes into Hearns. Then Steele breaks them and he is still jumping up and down getting his legs back. similar to how Benitez tried to get his legs back against Matthew Hilton in 1986, but not as dramatic.
     
  12. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nobody is denying Duran is an excusemaker, especially me. Your continuing to bring that up doesn't change the fact that you are as well. You wrote Leonard lost the 1st because he didn't fight his fight disregarding the fact that Leonard fought most of his career flat footed. That's an excuse. You wrote Leonard wasn't a great fighter yet disregarding the fact that he stopped a great fighter in Benitez before Duran. That's an excuse. You wrote that had Tommy not broken his hand he would have beaten Hagler. That's an excuse. You wrote that Tommy would have won had he slowed the pace down despite the fact that he simply couldn't Hags off of him. That's an excuse. You also wrote that had Hags fought in an orthodox stance you were sure that Tommy could have stopped him, ignoring the fact that not only was Hags never stopped but he was never even knocked down legitimately. You are full of excuses.
     
  13. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You are answering why I did not answer if it was me. It becomes personal and not about boxing. If people think my credibility is shot and still answer me, they probably don't think this MAG/Pernell credibility is too damaged or important. Honestly, I post here and I enjoy it because you guys know about the sport, and you don't find this kind of boxing knowledge in everyday life talking to friends. Although after I post I don't walk around in my life and think about these posts much. I come back and see what you guys responded. It is an enjoyment but not a personal thing. I don't take things personally on here. I never did and I never will. If it was personal I would just leave and go to another boxing message board and probably not say who I was there either, because I don't want it personal. This is about boxing. Which makes it more amusing when people think personally about things because that is not how I see it. My credibility is shot because I didn't admit to being someone else, which was obvious I was that person. I can care less. You knew it everyone else did. Someone was even calling me MAG answering me a few months ago, I didn't care. I have friends and family who can judge me and whom I get personal with, not on a message board. Mentioning I owe people I don't know some explanation on why I did not want to mention a name Eastside booted for no reason and did not want to get booted again for no reason. And if this is an agenda to deflect comments on boxing you don't agree with well I guess it is important to do that. And if differing opinions bother you. then go to a message board where everyone thinks the same thing. It won't be too exciting. You will say "Duran is the greatest and someone else answers. "yeah he is" End of discussion since where can it go. Regardless of what I said, Duran made those excuses and is one of the biggest excuse makers in boxing history. He is one of the greatest, but like I have stated for years in my mind he is not top 10 ATG, and I give my reasons. That is not personal that is a fact in my mind. Just an opinion but based on fact. When he lost to other greats he had no other excuse. Who does. Especially how he was knocked out by Hearns,,and outclassed by Wilfred or Leonard in fights 2 and 3. Are you going to use as an excuse that Duran lost to the other greats in boxing history because I didn't admit to being mag1965 soon after that name was booted-for no real reason either. I am answering more than I should because I always type a lot on any subject whether is it did Hearns wobble Hagler, or should I be honest about was I mag1965 before. I think the former is more pertinent to the boxing message board than the latter. Worrying about the fact that I did not mention who I was on another name doesn't mean anything. You guys don't even know my first name. Nobody owes anyone explanations on here. I don't think . And I assumed you guys knew it was me. I figured even when I said no. it was obvious who I was. My opinions and the way I talk is always the same. I just assumed people know it and move on, and see that the other name says booted so they figure it out.. Booted for no reason I must say.
     
  14. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't get attacking someone's character. YOU are going down that road, not him!! .. He never does that.. Who F****** cares if he didn't want to talk about him being another poster or not years ago, or brushed people off by saying no it wasn't him, or wasn't honest about it, or lied, or whatever you want to call it .. There are many posters here who have used different names, ip addresses, been booted and come back with different names and do not own up to it for their own personal reasons .. You live your personal life and he will live his personal life …. It has nothing to do with the price of rice, or posting on boxing, OR somehow damaging his credibility on boxing knowledge .. What A F***** joke that is
     
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  15. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Leonard was the variable which is what I always said. MAG said that also. And that is not an excuse, that is a fact. Put the fights side by side and see how Ray moves in the first and second fights. It is right there-and the 3rd fight Ray still had the variable and won easily. I said Ray was not yet a great fighter when he fought Benitez, he was a top guy and he won by gutting it out, but when he fought Duran I always said he was green and didn't know the whole game. And I still think that. Had he known the whole game he would have boxed and moved in the 1st fight. But it helped his legacy to lose and then win more than had he won that first fight.. Had he won that first fight, people would have said well he won because Duran was moving up from lightweight. I don't know if I wrote Hearns would have won had he not broken his right hand, but it would have helped him and I think he could have.. He fought a stupid stupid fight to be honest. Too cocky and not enough technique involved, but it is one of the most remembered fights, so it helped his legacy even in a loss. I said he might have been able to win, although he would have had to punch from the side and not straight on. Yes I think had Marvin fought orthodox, Hearns had a better chance to knock him out absolutely. Look he rocked and hurt Hagler 23 seconds into the fight with the first solid punch he landed from the side and I think hitting Marvin high on the head somehow would be better than hitting him on the chin. Some guys are like that.. Had he kept having that punch available how would that fight have gone? Think about it. Whether I am saying he would have won. I am not sure. But it would have been interesting. It is not an excuse. My points are about in the fight, not after where people say he had a massage and he couldn't move. I never said that. My points are always about during the fight and how the guys fought and what could change. Excuses about massages or eating 2 steaks or 3 gallons of water don't matter to me, since why didn't those things happen in other fights they had? Hagler was not stopped legit, but he never faced a guy like Hearns either. I am just saying what I feel. and I do think Hagler knew that fighting Hearns again would have been a risk.. He was not eager.