Ray Arcel on Hagler - Hearns.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JohnThomas1, Jun 16, 2018.

  1. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He is answering his question why I didn't mention who I was. It is ironic. Once people ask are you this person, it becomes about you and not about the subjects we are talking about.
     
  2. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    If Ray had won in Montreal who would have called him Green? He was 25 years old and the undefeated champ. It's just revisionist history.
     
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  3. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I thought that as far back as the 1980s.. I think most people knew that Ray was rattled by Duran calling his wife names. And that had an affect on how he fought.
     
  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    24 years and 1 month.

    I really don't think he was the completed article. He improved post Duran, psychologically at the very least. Imo he was absolute peak right when he retired.
     
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  5. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think it obvious the way he fought in June of 1980 that he was not completely the fighter he was even a year later. He learned from Duran not to get his head all messed up. although later he tried to mess with other fighters minds the way Duran did with him and it never really worked. Only with Hagler did he manage to do the mind games and make Hagler think he would be an easy fight. Duran taught him to learn all facets of the game mental and psychological and ring size and every other variable. It made him a great fighter and it gave him more chances to win.. Even knowing when to fight guys.
     
  6. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Perhaps he got better because he faced Duran. Nothing cam prepare you for that other than going through it. Calling him green though is quite a stretch. He had an extensive amateur carer, Gold Medal, was brought along by Dundee masterfully. He was right on time in Montreal. He had a win over another great fighter under his belt in Benitez. Duran had a PHD Ray at least had his Associates.
     
  7. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I think he would be viewed as a guy who tasted defeat and couldn't handle it. That a whole different thing. How is Prince Hamed viewed? I'm boxing we like to see our champions comeback from defeat and get redemption. That is part of the appeal of boxing.

    Ray's character would have been called into question as far as being a champion is concerned. Not his talent or even experience. He had that in spades.
     
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  8. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    yeah it is true. But that is why I said all along, Duran did not fight the best Ray he could have. The best Ray learned and came back and beat him. Since he learned. Duran taught him a lesson which Ray applied..
     
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  9. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    To call SRL green is pretty funny indeed.
     
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  10. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Hagler was a little tentative in his fight with Duran. Whether it's because he idolized him or Duran's rep as being the first real legend or Superfight for Marvelous he didn't handle it that well. Or maybe those counter rights Duran was dropping in there. Point is Hagler didn't fight like himself.


    Was he "green"?
     
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  11. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    You can make a much stronger case Hearns was green for Leonard. The guy never learned to even clinch because he was such an offensive force. Like young Foreman against Ali.
     
  12. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Honestly. Hagler always needed a threat. He fought better. When he thought he had an easy fight he came out more tentative, which I suppose makes sense. But he beat him. But with Ray coming out righty and tentative (relatively) did not work out well since he couldn't catch up.
     
  13. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    That was the best Ray had.
     
  14. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hearns was green in some aspects, but in his case he was closer to Leonard's experience level than Ray was to Duran in June of 1980... They really were not far from each other's ages. Hearns won his title in August 1980 and Ray in November of 1979.. Hearns cannot complain too much, that was something he should have known, and he had been rocked in a few fights like with Primera, which people don't realize.
     
  15. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    the best he had, but I don't think Ray was great at that point, so to say Duran beat the Leonard who later was,,, I don't know. Ray still did not know the whole game, and Duran taught him that. He beat the name, but not the Ray who learned the whole game. Mental. Psychological and even edges in ringsize and timing. Duran taught him that.