Ray Leonard - Smoke and Mirrors?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Russell, Apr 1, 2008.

  1. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In fact I would be interested in knowing why none of his supporters bring up why he didnt take the Hagler fight years sooner but was still taking fights with Kevin Howard or why they never acknowledge the ultimatum given to out of shape 40 pounds overweight Duran. Too embarrassing to talk about?

    let alone the fact that they never bring up his fight with Norris yet still claim "Oh yeah, Ray would have beat him no sweat". Suzie Q even started yelling at me printing all his letters in large caps.

    For anyone interested see Randy Gordons version of no mas, the story Sugar Ray leonard fans dont want you to know about.
     
  2. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    He dodged Hagler? He was willing to fight Hagler. The fight not coming off was as much Hagler's fault as it was Leonard's. The entire problem was both camps agreeing the weight division. Hagler was a natural middleweight and Leonard the same at welterweight.

    Leonard fought one fight at 154lbs against Kalule, but was still a natural welterweight. 154lbs was his limit in 1982, ho higher. Hagler argued that he couldn't get down to 154lbs without seriously weakening himself. During late 81, Hagler managed to weigh-in 157lbs against Hamsho, only three pounds above the jr middleweight limit.

    Can't you read? Leonard ducking Hagler is something you like to think. The above is something you don't want to know about.
     
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I agree with everything you say Chris. For some reason Leonard detractors seem to feel that Duran's win over Ray was of the utmost of significance, but Leonard's win in the rematch was tainted, and I don't know why. He also defeated a very formidable Marvin Hagler against incredible ods. He was returning from a 3 year layoff, fighting at 160 for the first time in his life, and had recovered from a torn retina which is a career ending injury for most fighters.
     
  4. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There you leonard types go again bending over for Ray Leonard. Why not fight him sooner if they are both considered to be at their peaks? Ray Robinson would have done it. Robinson gave up ten pounds to fight Lamotta and even before that he campaigned at middleweight.

    What fighter gives up pounds to make it easier for the opponent when he's already within the weight limits of the middleweight division. Leonard's the best right? So he should just make the rise up to middleweight and kick his ass. That's what Mike SPinks did to Larry Holmes for beating on brother Leon.

    Did Micheal Spinks dictate to Larry Holmes to drop 20 pounds to make it a more even fight? The excuses of the leonard fans are getting worse by the day. :lol:

    And news for you. In the same way he was ducking Hagler in the days of Kevin Howard he was also ducking Nunn, Jackson, and McCallum in the days of Hearns, Duran, and Lalonde. And when he wasnt, he recieved the kind of beating Terry Norris laid on him. That means he couldnt cut it as a real fighter.
     
  5. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Evr read Randy Gordon's account of fights 1 and 2? That's why.

    Now, you want to ask that question again?
     
  6. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Then why did one of the judges score it for Hagler. Why did Ap news score it for Hagler? Why have untold millions who saw it give it to Hagler?

    Too bad he couldnt do the same to Norris at 154 after one year. Not so impressive when up against quicker opponets wouldnt you say?

    Why on earth would anyone say this?? Was Joe Louis in his prime for the first Schmeling fight because he was unbeaten? You seriously need to justify this statement. Fact is, Tommy didnt have the experience and was just another young titlist. What set him apart from the others? He only had three defenses against weak compeition. Outside the Cuevas fight, there was nothing. No leonard fight, no Benitez or Duran fights. That's when Hagler stepped in and showed the world and Leonard how real fighting is done.

    The worst part was his weight problem. Tommy appeared very fragile.


    For that reason, I felt Norris' win was that much more impressive.


    When you're short on accomplishments, you scrape for everything you can think of. :lol:
     
  7. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Short and sweet. Why didn't Hagler drop down to 154lbs to make the fight happen?


    Works both ways doesn't it.
     
  8. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Why didnt Larry Holmes drop 20 pounds for Spinks? Why didnt Dick Tiger drop 10 pounds for Griffith? Why didnt lamotta sweat off ten pounds for Robinson? Why didnt Sal Sanchez sweat off 4 pounds for Gomez? Why didnt Dempsey drop 15 pounds for Carpentier? I never once heard it brought up and those fights still came off. Shouldnt Leonard be able to out do the losers of those other big fights? Legends shouldn't have to handicap their opponents. :smoke
     
  9. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm kicking ass where ever I go!
     
  10. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Fair enough. But then...




    ...can't have it both ways. He's either 1-1 in most 'important' fights here or 1-1 in 'revenge fights'.
     
  11. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    That's why I'm back. ;)
     
  12. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    It's easier to put on 20lbs than it is to take it off. 3lbs is less than 10lbs and 20lbs. And you're making silly comparisons. Hagler weighed-in at 157lbs for the first Hamsho fight. To fight Leonard he only needed to drop three pounds more, a big ask?. You might say is it a big ask for Leonard to gain 4 more pounds than he weighed against Kalule. Not sure he even weighed in at the limit when he fought at jr middleweight.

    I'm trying to be fair and even here, you're not. You said Leonard never wanted to fight Hagler years earlier before they fought, not the case. I'm playing tit for tat for obvious reasons.
     
  13. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Hagler had the bigger purse, thus forsaking other areas you mentioned. Marv needed the money to pay for Bertha's hospital bills.
     
  14. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Similar to the one the De Jesus camp asked Duran for in 1974, he response was to flip them the bird...then wank his pet lion off.
     
  15. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    When they were both shot of course.