Ray Leonard's autobiography

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stevie G, May 9, 2012.


  1. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    :lol:

    That's genius.
     
  2. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    I see what McGrain is talking about. Lawrence Taylor (probably foreign to a lot of you Euro guys) did the same thing in his auto-bio when it came to admitting faults and coming clean. It's sort of half-ass.
     
  3. ThinBlack

    ThinBlack Boxing Addict banned

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    Great Book, but the whole molestation thing is kind of hard to talk about.
     
  4. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Whats the Title?

    I`ll probably buy it. Havent had a good boxing book in awhile.
     
  5. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    He's not the first athlete to have had to deal with molestation.

    And given how many of them ended up, SRL seems to have managed 'greatness' in spite of adversity that would have derailed a good many others.

    I think most people underestimate the toll that such incidents can take.


    As for the book, he's hardly Winston Churchill or Marcel Proust, and he occasionally (IMO) resorts to revisionism, especially around the Duran Montreal bout, but it does provide a bit of insight into how his career unfolded.

    It needs to be read in context and in concert with other sources.
     
  6. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    I want to get it soon. I read 4 kings about Duran, Hearns,Hagler and Leonard.
     
  7. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    "I began to wonder whether the fury I somtimes displayed in the ring, which is most uncharacteristic of my true nature, might be traced to these incidents (of molestation) as much as the fighting between my parents.
    I do not know. I am not a psychologist.
    I do know that I was in a lot of pain as I chased my dream of winning the gold." - Page 41

    "I could not have engaged in such despicable behavior without a little help, and I am not referring to James Anderson or any of the boys. I am referring to the presence of alchohol, and eventually cocaine, which began to take over my life during the early eighties.
    There I go again, searching for a convenient scapegoat. If it wasn't my evil twin, Sugar Ray, the booze or drugs had to be responsible for my transgressions. The fact is that I put those substances into my body, me, Ray Charles Leonard, not some character I invented." - Page 192

    Seems pretty forthright and honest to me. No mention of blaming anyone other than himself.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    True, but for me the important line is "there I go again, searching for a convenient scapegoat."

    By page 192 he'd used his "evil twin" as an excuse so many times a disclaimer had become necessary. The book is swimming in alibis.

    But that's my opinion, and yours is different. That happens for every three of four people to read every book and that's how it should be.
     
  9. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You would laugh to your friends about some guy placing his mouth on your *****? Really? It's more than 'a bit ****ed up.'
    And it was not just 'some guy' either, but a boxing coach, whom he trusted and respected.
    Maybe he should have joked about it with his mates at the pub, as you would have done?

    I don't care if you're 8, 18 or 80, that's got to be a disturbing and traumatic experience for anyone.

    And read the paragraph I quoted in the post above. He didn't directly blame that incident for anything, but merely speculated if that's one of the reasons why he fought with fury at times in his fights.
     
  10. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But that's exactly it...a lot of the book, especially that line above, is also swimming in irony. Bitter irony.

    The way I read the book, is that he used one excuse after another and blamed everyone other than himself at the time, and upon reflection, many years later, he can see that the only person to blame for his behaviour was himself.
    It's a reflective look back at his life, where he casts his mind back to how he viewed things at the time.

    To me, the book is really about the duality of his life at the time. There was Ray, the quiet pacifist who avoided trouble, and Sugar Ray, the confident killer and playboy. The liar and deceiver.

    Obviously the same guy, but different parts to his personality. Sugar Ray being the persona, Ray the person. To the hangers-on and the fans, he was Sugar Ray, to those closest to him , just Ray.
    I think we all have that, to some degree.

    I read the book with the full understanding of what he was getting at when he said things like 'Ray Leonard couldn't, but Sugar Ray could.'
    Same guy, different aspects of his character.

    Again, the bolded part of my post, where he said it was he, not some character he invented, that was responsible for his behaviour is a reflective look back at how, at the time, he would conveniently blame 'Sugar Ray' for the bad stuff, where in reality it was always just Ray.
    It's an admission really, many years later, that there was nobody to blame but himself all along.

    I think that's really where you and I totally diverge...you seem to think he's still using 'Sugar Ray' as a scapegoat, whereas I feel that he is taking us back to how he saw things at the time, and upon reflection, is holding up his hands and saying 'That was bull****.'
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Like I say, I don't agree with you FOF. American culture especially is alive with a "don't blame yourself" sence of "recovery", language that is especially encountered in drug/alcohol addiction treatment. If it works, and it seems to for some, that's great. Compartmentalisation and self-love (as a tool for combating self-loathing) are encouraged and taught in work-a-day drugs clinics and thousand dollar retreats alike.

    In my opinion, this book is swimming with this kind of alibi-justification and excuse making - which he even acknowledges himself at some points.

    Your reading is different, and that's absolutely fine as i've said, but i flat out disagree with you. I found him to be whining and I felt he actively avoided directly judging himself in accordance with what is fashionable in the psychiatry industry which he has clearly and perhaps understandly been brushing up against regularly.

    The reason, I think, he feels the need to say he's not the character in he mentions over and over and over again in the book, "Sugar Ray" as being responsible for his shortcomings is that he mentions him as being exactly that (or something like it) on numerous occasions. You take it at face value. Perhaps i'm synical, perhaps you're naive, but I think either reading of the book is reasonable.


    But if it was me, and I wanted to take full responsiblity for something i'd done retrospectively, i wouldn't do so by drawing upon "Sugar Ray" over and over again. If i'd planted cocaine on you, ****ed a load of stripers whilst I was marreid to your daughter, struck your sister whilst I was ****-faced and then said to you years later..."I'm sorry...i'm sorry for what Sugar Ray did. That's not an alibi, I'm just saying, Sugar Ray was out of line. Sugar Ray was an animal. And he was me. Sugar Ray, I mean."

    Because I woudl all like this: "**** you buddy. YOU did that. Why the **** are you talking in the third persona bout your ownself like you ain't the guy?"

    And If I was apologising or recounting, i'd say "I'm sorry for what I did. I did that, and I was wrong."

    Perhaps that's over-personalising things a little, but to me that's what an autobiography is.
     
  12. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That's what I thought he was doing. That's the way I read it.
    I guess we're just going to have to go our seperate ways on this one.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He used "Sugar Ray" instead of "I" far to many times for that to be true, I think.
     
  14. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The one part of the book I took exception to was when he claimed he reached out to grab Juanita during an argument and cut her forehead with his ring.
    I've read other reports that state it was from either a slap or a punch. So maybe that part was dishonest.
     
  15. ThinBlack

    ThinBlack Boxing Addict banned

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    He loved to hit Juanita, that's for sure.What he did to her before their wedding was despicable.