Ray Robinson VS. Bob Fitzsimmons

He wasn't in his prime for either fight though.

 

Basilio was tough and great too...a boxing master(?), not quite. But the styles between Basilio and Fitz are totally different. I'll give you that Fitz is by far the harder hitter...But then again Robby was 38 and involved in boxing many many years at that point. Not a prime Robby by any stretch. So I'm not quite sure where you are going(?)

I liken Fitz to a cannon, stand in front of him and he'll get you...Robinson has to move,make him pick up and reset and lash him while he is busy getting set. There is no denying Fitz hits hard...There is also no denying he gets set before he punches. I think movers give Fitz difficulty, and I think there was a reason Corbett never got a sniff of a rematch.

 

I'm quite happy sitting where i do. Without tv and the likes the media of the day lent very heavily to sensationalism.

 

:goodyeah, he'd probably trip over the prone fitz.

 

So your trying to say there was no significant technical improvement in fighters from 1900 to 1940 - 50? I think its clear that there were major improvements in combination punching, footwork etc etc. Although Bob Fitz had awesome power he was fighting with six ounce gloves and his regular fighting weight was only 168. Robinson can compete physically with Fitz and I can't see him being knocked spark out by anyone, he had a great chin and a massive heart that he proved time and time again. Fitz has a punchers chance but that is all IMO

So its SRR wide decision or late knockout for me.

 

Bob Fitzimmons was no ordinary 160-68 pounds...He had pipe stem legs
topped by a heavyweight's upper torso...He was described by Edgar Lee Masters,afamous American writer, as having long arms like cables...
He was a heavyweight really, though his weight was 160-68 pounds..
Any man who can flatten aHeavyweight as Peter Maher,Jim Corbett,
Gus Ruhlin, powerful Tom Sharkey, Ed Dunkhorst [280 lbs], would be
too strong with a Sugar Ray Robinson in my opinion...Tommy Ryan ,a
great Welter champ of the time would never have even thought of
tackling old Fitz...It would have been suicide for Ryan...

 

Kid McCoy wouldn't go near him either. He toyed with the idea for a bit, then admitted that it wouldn't be a good plan of action. He said that he always sensed in their sparring sessions (which McCoy recalled as invaluable to his own development as a fighter) that Fitz was really holding some things back from him; a trick or two and that he sensed that the old dog never showed you his full hand.

McCoy definitely did not want to find out what those tricks were!

 

Maher is just an example.

My point is that the heavyweights Bob Fitzsimmons beat who you characterise as "bar brawlers" were actualy far more profesional in their aplication to their trade than most of the current heavyweight top 10.

 

Which ones, exactly? Bigger ones (not 180 lbs or lower, such as Maher or Corbett). I'm too lazy to look through Adam's book again (besides it's in another apt anyway).

 

I would suggest that Fitzsimmons win over Gus Ruhlin is verry impresive.

 

Is that the only one? I heard a plural - "heavyweights". Ruhlin had some fat too, with proper training he could be considerably below 190. Kid McCoy could have finished Ruhlin in about 6 rounds too had he really wanted it.

 

I have to question all your observations here.

Ruhlin looks in good shape in all the pictures I have seen and he might even have dehydrated himself to get to 200 lbs. He also might have understated his weight in the Fitzsimmons fight. Some newspapers imply that it might have been nearer 210.

I dont think that Kid McCoy would have beaten Ruhlin. He was a top heavyweight contender but seems to have hit a bit of a wall against the bigger boys.

 

Terry McGovern covering the fight saw Ruhlin having some excessive weight in Fitz bout.

Reporter for one of Syracuse newspapers thought McCoy had Ruhlin ready to go at the end of the 6th round, but didn't attempt to and allowed him to recover. Hmm. Ruhlin claimed he weighed only 175 lbs in McCoy bout.

 

McGovern's next day report in NY Evening World:
"Ruhlin was big, of course, but I wasn't stuck on his looks. He had a lot of flesh on that I don't think he needed. Around the kidneys and in under his back muscles he seemed a little flabby."

There was a lot of money bet that Ruhlin wouldn't last 12 rounds against McCoy. I don't know about his motivation, just mentioning one of the opinions from next-day reports.