I was simply translating and compiling reports of the first 5 fights between Robinson and LaMotta in my blog, and it is mentioned several times, that Robinson had troubles with in-fighters.
I've thought this for a long time. It's why I've said Emile Griffith would beat him if instructed right, because he was a terrific infighter. Very strong and very skilled.
Neither report mentions Robinson mixing it up willingly or frequently, he was mostly avoiding letting Gavilan get inside, and in 1st fight was too busy defending himself to counter Gavilan when he rushed in.
I think Ray could fought well on the inside , he went to the body well and opened up the head with good great thinking attcaking . True though , good rugged fighters did well against him inside , but until he was past his prime and fighting bigger men , he always seemd to weather the storm and come out on top . I do think though that the only chance someone has of beating him is by fighting him , and by doing so with a good jab first . (I dont think any defensive-minded boxers could do it , his attacks were too fast and calculated ) . Still , I dont think there is a fighter in history that could do it (when Ray was in his prime ) . Randy Turpin is the best example , and Ray found a way to overcome him when fighting past his best weight
I think that he could bought into a brawl he could have outboxed LaMotta by a wide margin but he choose to fight him which made the fights very close (most of them).
Yes - as I understand it, both victories were more a product of Robinson's long range boxing than mid-to-close range exchanging. At that distance, Gavilan may have beaten him. Of course, this should be seen as a positive for Robinson rather than a negative - he measured what his opponent brought to him fought accordingly. And to outbox Gavilan is no easy task.
Sorry , I didnt mention in my post that I meant Robinson in his prime fighting someone without a massive weight advantage . Anyway , Ray beat him another 3 times before moving up to LaMotta's weight and then repeating it there
Money and cheese and pickle sarnies. Not fighting a prime atg great welter or middle puncher... Fighting way past his best. When carlos monzon was told how great it was that robinson had regained the middleweight title five times,monzon remarked he must have lost it five times as well,whilst he himself had never lost his title...
Robinson is not some God, he can beat beat even in his prime, I give Greb, Walker, Ted Kid Lewis, Joe Dundee, Barney Ross, Jack Brittion and others to have a good chance in upsetting them in a SERIES of fights. If Jake never got the rematch with Robinson, we never know for sure. And yes Jake did beat a PRIME Robinson.
He had the same weakness as all fighters who go backwards. Suceptibility to the hook and upercut when thrown from the right angle. Randy Turpin found a systematic way to exploit this by feinting him when he was going backwards.
In that era when fighters fought so often boxing fans forgive fighters for losses on the records (and right we should) , but look at Ray's record - he lost just once in his prime , and to a fighter who considerably outweighd him (and Robinson beat him 4 times before moving up in weight and doing it again) . This is amazing , and something I think fans underestimate . Then look at the level of oposition Ray was beating so consistently . The statistics allone are staggering . Then , if one must , look at what he did at middleweight in a golden era when past his best. If you are so biased that this is not good enough , then just watch a film of him and see how good he was in the ring .
Not saying Robinson is not great, I just saying I give other GREAT fighters a great shot in beating Robinson. Greb and Walker come to mind.