With all due respect to my favorite HW, we all know he talked out of his ass. No, I don't know. Half playing devil's advocate here, and I do prefer a boxer to a puncher, a mover to a plodder, but for me sooner or later in any match up like this, the boxer is gonna have to hit hard enough to hurt the puncher, and we all know a post exile Ali could take a helluva punch.
IMO, there's been no more marvelous boxer and mover, albeit unorthodox, than young Ali. He honed his own unique style to extreme precision, particularly based on split-second-timed accuracy and slippage, at a dizzyingly fast, smooth rate. Actually, all the boxer has to do is hit hard enough to disrupt and discourage the presser. Clay proved he could punch in dethroning Liston. And young Ali wouldn't have to knock out old Ali to win. The opposite would be true here. In spite of his usual baloney, as you say, I feel Ali's assessment here is thoughtful and on the mark. By his own description, then, Ali says he was stronger and had more self-belief in the '70s. All right, but the little extra heft is cancelled out by the superior speed and accuracy of the '60s Ali. It is the punch you don't see that floors you. And I think Clay's standing up to Liston is proof '60s Ali had enough courage to do anything the later version did, only with a few more butterflies, perhaps. But nothing can make up for peak Ali's gift of speed, accuracy and athletic harmony -all the result of the dedication of the greatest performers, by the way. Even in this sense, '70s Ali cut too many corners to favorably compare, never again consistently training with the zeal of youth. I feel young Ali is the greater. He is the real Ali. IMO, he is the greatest of the heavyweights and should be in the top ten, P4P.
Thanks for your thoughtful response, Prime... (edit... wrong thread!!!) But are we really gonna cite the Liston fights as proof of anything? I agree that, let's just call him Clay for simplicity's sake, will chew up Ali, dazzles him with speed, accuracy and athletic harmony (great term BTW), but, and I know mine is the minority opinion on this, are we saying that at no time during this match up does Ali get his chance to unload? If not, do we not believe that Ali can knock Clay out? Again, don't know, never know in these hypo's do we? You know, they fight three or four times and then all bets are off. But I can easily see Clay's athletic superiority negated by Ali's know how. Talk about the punch you don 't see... Ali was a master at that game. He's a good bet to possum a young, gullible Clay, and then to take his head off when he least expects it. Again, I know most will see it differently, but you want to wish for a fantasy fight? Forget Ali versus the Rock, I wanna see this one!
NO ! Just plain & simply no ! Your talking the same person, get it ?.. SAME PERSON... except one is physically at his peak, faster hands, much faster feet, better stamina & the SAME brain to think what to do when it gets tough & the other MIGHT hit a little harder. Use your brain here. Ali 60s W15 UD Ali 70s. Absolutely no doubt, its actually stupid to pick vice versa unless you like to bet the outsiders.
Well, of course I knew it would draw this kind of response sooner of later, but no need to be nasty, is there? I don't agree we're talking the same person here. Precisely because he was a lot slower, a lot less athletic, Ali had to fight with his head, and he did he hit a lot harder. And by the way, if it's such a runaway, then why do you have it going the 15 round distance. Surely the athletic wonderkind Clay could figure a way to end it by TKO.
Thanks for taking the time to correct; it was but a short-lived :| honor to be confused with Janitor. The Liston fixes, huh? Perhaps, but if you revisit footage of the first fight, you might appreciate Clay's pumping jab and slashing combinations, all delivered with big-time authority. Crooked result or not, Clay showed he could punch when needed. Personally, I don't see Ali possuming his '60s self for a kayo. Sixties Ali would know enough and be fast enough to neutralize '70s Ali's only true power punch, the straight right. Too obvious and long-distance a weapon for the Zaire attack to work on such a gifted foe. At best, H2H '70s Ali can honestly only be ranked near Joe Frazier, who actually emphatically defeated him. Marciano and Tyson would hurt the older Ali where the younger version would skitter to safety. Peak Ali's fast fluidness sets him apart from other mortals.
The 67 and the 72 versions of AIi are almost equal when it comes to the ability to win fights against other fighters. The difference is the earlier version had more stamina and a little more speed and accuracy. And the older version had more power and more experience and a better chin. However, I do believe that the younger version would beat the older version more often than not.
Silly question.... because Ali himself was never the hardest hitting HWT but he had one of the best chins in any division in history & was also A+ for durability. Id have thought this was obvious :huh
I like it when you make sense Bill. You achieve this a lot outside of Barrera discussions. Muhammad Ali was as close as you could get to being unknockoutable. His punch resistance, powers of recovery, and heart are all A or A+ .
Chinxkid, I really respect you and your opinion, but I have to disagree on 70s ali beating 60s ali. I am one who firmly believes 60s ali was the better version. Much better Speed, footwork, youthness, and sharpness combined with his same power/physical strength.
I believe Im fair when discussing his talents, ability etc, I always state he is A+, I just let it be known all too often the things I DONT like about him. Ps. just because I scored the EM/MAB trilogy in EMs favour, doesnt necessarilly mean Im biased or unfair, it was a very close series afterall. :good
They should get inducted together IMO & it would be good to see them make up even tho they will never be actual real friends, just respect each other outside the ring like they (surely) do inside the ring. Ps. I seen your list of 10 greatest fights & noticed Gatti-Robinson, I havent seen that one but its on youtube so I might do that now, the 1st & 2nd fights are both on youtube, I think it was the 1st fight you marked down, I`ll try that one 1st. Also... check out Chacon-Boza Edwards II, I watched it for the 4th time last night, it disappeared off youtube for ages but its back on again, if you havent seen it, watch it now, it makes my top 10 best fights & **** knows when the ****s will remove it again. :good