Rocky Marciano '53 vs. Ron Lyle '75

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Omega74, Jul 20, 2021.

Who wins?

  1. Marciano by KO

    31 vote(s)
    56.4%
  2. Lyle by KO

    21 vote(s)
    38.2%
  3. Marciano by UD

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
  4. Lyle by UD

    1 vote(s)
    1.8%
  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes I know he did. But the record also shows Ron also drew with a 38 year old man outside of the elite end of the division.

    For comparisons It’s important to acknowledge that. Even if some think Ron might have deserved the win. That’s the same as all draws.
     
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  2. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree and will confer the point that Lyle had several less than stellar moments like he did here, but I personally think that his power and courage would be too much for Marciano.
     
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  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes and you are entitled to think this.

    Ron would admittedly be as much of a handful as guys like Trevor Berbick and Ray mercer always were for the best fighters.

    Myself, I believe these kinds of guys always fall short at the top of the division. Which in my view, would include losing to Rocky.

    We can all decide to see it either way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  4. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Active Member banned Full Member

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    It has one. I use it frequently.
     
  5. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    Harold Johnson probably beats Lyle himself he was good enough to beat Eddie Machen. Dismissing him because he made light heavyweight doesn't cut it for me.

    The 1970s are more undersized relative to the current era than the 1950s are to Lyle's era ironically.
     
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  6. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    Also, I thought Henry Cooper dropped Ali weighing 185 pounds, less than Moore weighed vs Marciano
     
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  7. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yep. We can disagree with one another in a logical manner, rather than ending furiously like a couple of trolls.
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't think Harold beats Lyle. I'm glad you are abolishing your mantra that it's logical the current Heavyweights are the greatest of all time and too big for the likes of Ali and co however, excellent.

    I am picking against him because even when he fought as a heavyweight he was barely above 175 and tho a far better fighter than Lyle those 30 pounds and the fact that Lyle was a strong powerful reasonably good heavyweight would be a bit too tall IMO.
     
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  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It should be pretty obvious i am talking championship versions as Marciano was. I commented per a description "in their last fight" earlier. Go all the way to Ali - Spinks and Holmes - Spinks if you like I still don't see Moore dropping them.
     
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  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Moore isn't "penalised". If you're trying to say steroids are the only reason heavyweights got bigger you'd be wrong. God only knows what you deem "science". Have a look at the height of the top 10's as time went on. Holyfield had a much better frame and body type for putting on pounds than Moore. Moore would not have worn an extra 30 odd pounds very nicely.

    Are you completely sure *Davidson isn't near the quality of Holmes?

    Moore could punch at heavyweight absolutely but he's not gonna go around dropping big ATG's like bowling pins either. Not like he did Rocky. Rocky fell face forward too. He got up quick tho and had no problem getting thru the 2 plus minutes left on the plus side.

    History is littered with outclassed lower tier 200+ heavyweights getting dropped cold. Who could forget Ruiz - Francis/Roddy/Jackson.
     
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    The height of heavyweights has a lot to do with the extra weight they could hold. As weight became more important taller fighters eventually became more prevalent. But we are really talking about much later on than the 1970s when things changed even further. At some point extra functional weight did become achievable. Extra weight stopped being so limiting as it had been in all previous eras. The range of where a tipping point was regarding a height to weight ratio in boxing had changed dramatically from previous times. So fighters physically had less weight limitations as time went on. And that is how a Superheavyweight division seperate from heavyweight really evolved. It is why a new division was introduced into the Amatuer sport in the right way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sub 200 pound heavyweight champions basically ended with Liston in 62. Before that they were quite prevalent. I wouldn't count one hit wonder Spinks over the shell of Ali.

    Liston, Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis and co all had plenty of functional pounds.

    FYI there is no Superheavyweight division separate from heavyweight. There's no such thing.
     
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    yes Liston Ali Tyson and Larry did have functional weight. Absolutely. These were bigger guys who could do more than previous bigger guys could. In the case of Liston and Tyson they were not even taller than the previous heavyweight champions. Times were changing.

    There is in the Olympics. There is in real life. The divisions just have the wrong name in Professional boxing. That’s the only difference. the classification.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Liston wasn't short tho but yes similar to Louis.

    Well that division has been in amateur boxing since 1984 so it's been around for almost 4 decades but has never been introduced to the pro's and certainly isn't part of professional boxing.
     
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  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    And yet without it being officially introduced to pro boxing, Superheavyweight boxers turn professional to take part in an incorrectly named weight class.

    Liston was 6 foot. Closer in height to Leon Spinks than Joe Louis.