Rocky Marciano '53 vs. Ron Lyle '75

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Omega74, Jul 20, 2021 at 6:54 PM.

Who wins?

  1. Marciano by KO

    15 vote(s)
    44.1%
  2. Lyle by KO

    17 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. Marciano by UD

    2 vote(s)
    5.9%
  4. Lyle by UD

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    None were good.

    And Lyle didn't provide just weight. Stop being dense or dishonest, whichever it may be. Lyle brought size combined with athleticism and requisite skill.

    I look at guys like Layne and Matthews and LaStarza on film and I see slow-twitch plodders with tons of openings an no trump card, whether it be skill, power or speed... And these were supposed to be the cream of the crop.
     
  2. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Stop being a racist tool bag. Those that have known you long enough have been around and see you slip time to time. Completely ignoring the accomplishments of Layne, Lastarza, Matthews, and ****ell is absurd. We’re they the best? No. We’re they all top 100? Yeah. ****ell, Savold, Louis we’re all over 200 and ranked at the time. Wether you think they were good or not is irrelevant.
     
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  3. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    I stopped reading after this idiocy. You showed your cards.

    I believe the lady doth protest too much.
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Save your breath. These are the guys who have decided That once manufactured Superheavyweights came out of the steroid boom everyone from the past under 200lb was really something called a cruiserweight and no longer worth consideration.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021 at 12:16 PM
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  5. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Foreman who came off 2 years break and showed a lot of rust in the fight. Also, Foreman who still stopped him in the first half of the fight.

    I'm almost sure that active 1974 Foreman would fare better than that.
     
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    Lyle was juiced?

    The things I learn around here.
     
  7. Noel857

    Noel857 I Am Duran Full Member

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    Lyle has to be the choice here Marciano`s resume is so thin just cant see him surviving Big Ron`s bombs
     
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  8. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hmm? He beat Joe Bugner, Oscar Bonavena, Buster Mathis, Earnie Shavers and he climbed off the mat to do it. Jimmy Ellis ,Scrap iron Johnson, Scott Ledoux, Stan Ward and the tough Gregorio Peralta. He was 6 foot 3 and a half with a 76 inch reach and weighed 225 , Rocky was what 5'10 ? 185 pounds with a 69 inch reach? Style wise this is all wrong for Rocky, he'll get dropped early and rise to continue but this would be,,by FAR the hardest puncher Marciano ever faced and unlike taking Charles's shots and getting up after being dropped by Moore and Walcott he can't survive this kind of slugfest and goes out inside of 5. I'd give Walcott a far better chance than Marciano
     
  9. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Do you mind pointing out which fights Lyle's stamina failed him?

    He went the distance multiple times and won, such as against Bugner, Bonavena, Ellis, etc. Even in fights he lost such as against Quarry it wasn't like he was gasping for air and gassed at the end Lyle's stamina was fine.

    The final round with Scott Ledoux was an intense back and forth war, he showed plenty of late round stamina in this fight despite being tired.

     
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  10. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ali fight and even the Bonavena fight the last two rounds it was said he tired and Bonavena came on. He also looked exhausted in the Foreman fight but that can be taken as punch drunk I suppose. Didn’t see the Ledoux fight will check it out. I wouldn’t say his stamina was poor I just wouldn’t say he had great stamina.
     
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  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    There has been some speculation for many years. I did a quick search and found this post from another forum.

    “ Every single world champion boxer almost these days uses steroids..How do you explain the insane immense punching power that emerged in the 70s, the 'golden era of heavyweights' which was right when steroids really boomed? It was 1962 in Winthorp Laboratories when the best one for boxing was synthesized, Winstrol. (I may be wrong about the name of the lab but I know that date is correct) There's no doubt in my mind that Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers both used some kind of steroid. George Foreman is my favorite boxer, and I'm biased as a mother****er towards him so I'm not going to pass judgement on him but it would not suprise me. People, don't be blind...and don't think you wouldn't use them yourself if you became a winner, and the only thing that gave you the edge over your opponent was a shot in the ass...”

     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021 at 12:47 PM
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  12. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    Well, in the face of that kind of evidence, I retract all former statements made on the subject.
     
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  13. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

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    After being floored several times and on the brink of defeat himself.

    Perhaps, but I didn't give this example to showcase Lyle's skill, but to showcase his punching power, which was more than enough to stop Marciano.
     
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  14. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    We don't know how much punching power is needed to stop Rocky, because he was never even close to be stopped.

    I think it's fair to assume that Lyle had enough power to stop Marciano, but the question is about the different aspects. Lyle isn't tricky fighter, he was decent but simple boxer and Marciano faced far better technicians than him. We also don't know how Lyle would adjust his game for Rocky's constant pressure and high workrate.

    Foreman's fight showed that Lyle had a lot of heart and punched hard, but Rocky didn't fight like Foreman. I wouldn't read too much from this fight in this hypothetical scenario.
     
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  15. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You should probably watch the Ali fight again. He paced himself very well. Lyle looked very impressive outboxing Ali for several rounds and got caught by a perfect 1-2 to the jaw that turned his legs into jelly because he made the mistake of covering up both his eyes.

    Getting nailed by a good shot you don't see coming and getting stopped does not mean you have bad stamina. Literally the whole training camp for Lyle was to make sure he didn't make the same mistake Foreman did. Ali tried rope a doping, clowning, etc but Lyle would not take the bait and punch himself out.

    He looked exhausted against Foreman because they just stood right in front of each other trading bombs for 5 rounds. I can 100% guarantee if Marciano just stood in front of Foreman like that launching bombs with no defense he'd be gasping for air in even less time.

    Your words were "usually his stamina failed him". In neither of these examples did Lyle's stamina fail him. He got caught by a nasty combination against Ali very late in the fight, and against Foreman he simply got knocked out. By your logic, Frazier must have poor stamina because he got knocked out in 2 rounds against Foreman. Also, if you say "usually his stamina failed him" that suggests it happened all the time but as I pointed out, he has several fights going the distance without showing poor stamina.