Rocky Marciano v George Foreman

Ah, these kind of fights I simultaneously love and hate the most.

In equal measure.

On one hand I absolutely love pitting guys from different eras against each other. But on the other I can't get past the weight discrepancies.

I'm gonna answer this in two ways.

1) Rocky is a far superior fighter to Foreman in my opinion, he has better cardio, better shot selection, more fire in his belly and he has a stylistic advantage of he can close the range. That being said he isn't superior enough to overcome a 30 pound disadvantage. Foreman is stronger and far more dangerous in real terms. As Rocky closes the gap Foreman will shove him off and land huge hooks that will take their toll and end the fight in brutal fashion. I mean yeah, Rocky is a HW champ yadda yadda, but he's also a CW sized fighter (at best) and he isn't good enough to give up that much weight.

2) Rocky is a better fighter than Foreman and size shouldn't really come into it. If Rocky is allowed to bulk up by a mere stone the weight discrepancy is not really significant and not enough to sway how I see the fight going. If the size issue is removed Foreman will struggle to keep Rocky on the outside as he bores forward with his bull like strength. If Rocky can keep the range close he can tag the body and head and probably get off first as Foreman won't have the leverage he is used to. Rocky getting off first spells trouble for anyone. Expect Rocky to chop down the tree in the second half of the fight.

 

People are right to favor Foreman, but I do think that Marciano could d significantly better than Frazier, especially that version of Frazier.

 

This is correct. Foreman should be favorite but a prime Rocky has to be a real live threat doesn’t he? Especially In light of young Foremans real flaws. The stamina issues and the struggle with a puncher who got inside like Lyle certainly is food for thought.

 

Where did he imply that, even remotely?

You said the consensus still thought Joe was at his peak going into the Foreman fight. Are you saying he was shown to be no longer "prime" simply because Foreman knocked him out?

 

No question about it. A shot version of Frazier did better 3 years later with a bit of a tweak to his gameplan.

 

For what it's worth, a lot of people noticed Frazier was slipping prior to facing Foreman. Newspapers will confirm this.

 

Eddie Futch talked about it later. Joe wasn`t as focused during camp. Ken Norton said that Frazier had lost his drive.

 

At the end of the day, Marciano never faced anything like Foreman in his combination of power, strength, size, ability to cut off the ring, pulverizing jab...

Foreman, on the other hand, faced various fighters in Marciano's mold, KO'd them all, and in fact was only beaten in his prime years by fighters who were of a mold almost diametric to Marciano's.

The only argument that remains for the Rock is that he was made of magical space stuff, of such heretofore unseen values, that the very quality of his approach overcomes that approach's tendency to fail in the face of Foreman. If that's the hill you choose to die on, so be it.

 

Or we are all overrating Foreman and his opposition and they were the true magicians all along.

 

For sure, but Mac certainly didn't say Frazier was "better" after FOTC.

I've acknowledged Frazier had slipped a bit many times in here. Also, prime is not akin to peak. You can be slipping and still in your prime.

I really don't think the Foreman fight would have been a good gauge tho, Foreman would rip him anytime imo and most others. No disrespect to Joe but he'd made for Foreman.

So is Marciano.

 

Frazier did not win a round in either of the Foreman fights.Not engaging for a couple of rounds and by that lasting a little longer is not doing better.It is merely delaying the inevitable!

 

Frazier had 2 years defending against 2 unranked no hopers,that was his choice.

 

That and the Ron stander fight yes.

 

I agree. If Frazier was still prime The implication is that Frazier maintained the form of the first Ali fight beyond 1971. He absolutely did not. After his subsequent hospitalisation it was expected that Joe would retire. He took time off. Eventually an exhibition was arranged with veteran Cleveland Williams as a kind of dummy run to see if Frazier really had enough left to continue with his career. The wonder was If Joe could take a punch again!

He passed that test even though he got hit only a few times. Even so, Fraziers first two proper fights back were very gentle hand picked types. It seems there really was not much faith that Frazier ever could be the same.

And it’s this version of Frazier that measures up to Marciano??